• retrospectology@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    8
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    edit-2
    5 months ago

    European countries aren’t totalitarian states. This isn’t a question of culture, it’s an issue regarding the one and only state power that’s making decisions.

    This is the danger of being lulled into thinking China is a normal country. Yes, there are long histories in China and are (vanishing) diverse cultures in China but that’s irrelevant when talking about the actions of the state, which is all encompassing and overrules culture and diversity every time.

    It’s the state that owns and controls these companies, it’s the state that dictates their policy and usage, and since the state is fascist and actively seeking to undermine democracy across the global, it is wise to treat the products of that state as a threat.

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      5 months ago

      European countries aren’t totalitarian states.

      I know some Irish Republicans, Spanish Catalonians, German anti-Zionist political prisoners, and … waves hand at Poland, Hungary, and Russia

      Quite a few native Europeans who would tell you differently.

      This is the danger of being lulled into thinking China is a normal country

      I don’t think the folks on Lemmy are at any risk of that.

      It’s the state that owns and controls these companies

      Imagine thinking government should dictate the terms of business and not the other way around.

      • retrospectology@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        5 months ago

        I know some Irish Republicans, Spanish Catalonians, German anti-Zionist political prisoners, and … waves hand at Poland, Hungary, and Russia

        Quite a few native Europeans who would tell you differently.

        Europe has some authoritarian governments, not totalitarian dictatorships that approach anywhere near the all-encompassing control of the CCP. Hungary maybe I guess, which isn’t a country I’d recommend taking tech from either.

        Ireland is not comparable to China though, that’s an extreme reach. We’re not talking about right-wing groups seeking power within democracies, we’re talking about uni-party state control.

        I don’t think the folks on Lemmy are at any risk of that.

        Lemmy definitely has a tankie infestation already. I got banned from lemmy.ml for discussing Tiananmen and Hong Kong. Pointing out that the Great Leap Forward resulted in millions of deaths was labeled “cia misinformation” by the mods. It’s a throughly compromised instance.

        Lemmy users are not immune to tankie and Rusdian trolls, and thinking that they are is actually a weakness that gets exploited by those bad actors.

        Imagine thinking government should dictate the terms of business and not the other way around.

        Normal regulatory duties of a government are a far cry from the state having total ownership and control of business and using that control as part of a coercive campaign to suppress human rights, dissent and individual freedoms.

        Whatever authoritarianism is festering in other countries, China is still on an entirely different level, it’s not really a question.

        • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          5 months ago

          Europe has some authoritarian governments, not totalitarian dictatorships

          Totalitarianism is always when the other guy does it. Never question the modem day police/surveillance state at home. Certainly don’t ask about our colonies abroad, or their paramilitary death squads and torture prisons financed with domestic capital.

          Lemmy definitely has a tankie infestation

          It’s got an anti-war infestation that’s regularly accused of being tankies for failing to clap for the correct set of tanks.

          Normal regulatory duties of a government are a far cry from the state having total ownership and control of business

          Calmly explaining this to my US Postal Service and my Tennessee Valley Authority

          • retrospectology@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            5 months ago

            Totalitarianism is always when the other guy does it

            No…totalitarianism is an actual distinct system of governance when the state controls every aspect of daily life, communication and economic activity. It’s an actual word with meaning.

            It’s got an anti-war infestation that’s regularly accused of being tankies for failing to clap for the correct set of tanks.

            Ok, I’m not sure if we’re talking through a translator app or something, but I didn’t get banned from lemmy.ml for being “pro-war” I got banned for mentioning a historical fact about the Great Leap Forward and acknowledging other atrocities like the genocide occurring in Xinjiang.

            If someone is anti-war they would be against those types of things as well. Tankies instead deny that those events occurred/are occurring, that’s why they’re so easy to spot and how people know they’re on Lemmy – they literally can’t condemn the CCP for any of the things they purport to be against when it comes to other countries, since it’s counter-productive to their true goals to criticize the CCP.

            By contrast an honestly anti-war progressive type of person would be just as clear-eyed about their own government as they are the CCP. That’s being anti-war, you can’t be selective or try to ignore degrees of difference just because it’s politically uncomfortable, that’s just being a mouth-piece for a specific flavor of authoritarianism.

            Calmly explaining this to my US Postal Service and my Tennessee Valley Authority

            Again, running public services is not the same as the state owning and controlling all businness and industry. If the Post Office was used to control speech, that would be totalitarian use of a public service.

            I think you’re just being obtuse at this point. You might be down for totalitarianism and the abolishment of individual freedoms, most people are not. Since, you know, having no rights kind of suck ass.

            • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              5 months ago

              totalitarianism is an actual distinct system of governance when the state controls every aspect of daily life

              Imagine saying that in a country with the highest prison population in the world