I still can’t quite get over the fact that a scheme designed to save the lives of children became the latest culture war battlefield.
not even counting the long-term savings to the NHS from people taking up cycling or walking instead of driving, or the savings for many Welsh drivers caused by the reduction in their insurance premiums
Not sure if it belongs here but I thought it showed how hard it is to even change small things.
So why all the outrage? Well, it turns out that much of it was manufactured. In January of this year I did a little digging through four of the main Facebook groups opposing the change to 20mph in Wales. I found that in each case one of the admins was a Tory councillor from Sunderland who has, and this is hilarious, campaigned to have 20mph limits in parts of his home town.
Conservative politican scum baggery ?
Ultimately, the 20mph change was an attempt to rebalance the communities in which we live, so they are no longer dominated by cars. The policy aims to make our neighbourhoods more livable (20mph is three decibels lower than 30mph). It has a positive impact on particulate pollution because cars have to brake less. And it clearly saves lives.
As someone who drives in Wales a fair bit, it was badly implemented so it became unpopular.
The blanket rule was applied to roads it shouldn’t have been, with a slow and costly process to fix the speed limits on roads that’s shouldn’t have been covered.
It makes sense on all side streets, but it doesn’t make sense on all main roads. Some yes, but not all inside towns and cities. I think this is being unpicked it seems with more flexibility for councils? I don’t really follow Welsh politics, like many people I suspect.
The other issue is enforcement or lack there of. There seems to be zero enforcement so you get into the situation of driving down roads and everyone is still going at 30 ignoring the law. It puts you under pressure to go at 30 and it’s easy to drift up to that speed.
I’m am generally a supporter of the new law but the politicians have to take ownership that the reason it’s controversial is because it was poorly implemented. Its easy to paint the critics as extreme or as part of a “culture-war” but that’s just people taking advantage of actual anger and frustration.
The policy can be popular I think - there just needs to be some minor changes. As an example I can think of 4 roads in the town I drive or walk on that could do with going back to 30mph; thats nothing in the 100s of roads in the area.
It’d even potentially be safer as people are just breaking the law and speeding on these road anyway making it less predictable for pedestrians.
An example is a long main road that climbs up a steep hill in my town. It’s actually a struggle. climbing it at 20mph, and I even get foot pain trying to keep the accelerator at just the right depression to stay at 20mph. The road is wide too so you’re struggling all the time with the accelerator, monitoring your speed as it’s natural to go faster on wide roads and other drivers putting you under pressure to go faster. People are even overtaking each other which can be dangerous as you don’t always see what’s coming down the other way easily.
So I’d be worrying less about the fringe lunatics stirring up anger and more about tweaking the implementation to get the majority on board. That’ll take the support and interest away from the fringe noise makers.
I fully accept your built environment argument, and everything else you are saying. But this? “It’s actually a struggle. climbing it at 20mph, and I even get foot pain trying to keep the accelerator at just the right depression to stay at 20mph.” Means you are physically unfit to drive. It’s also a maximum, you’re allowed to go below 20 mph.
You can go slightly under the speed limit but going much slower for no reason could get you pulled over. It’s also something you would fail to pass your test on if you were driving under the limit for no reason.
Onto the struggle point I don’t really understand the foot pain thing, there’s barely any travel on the accelerator between 20mph and 30. Personally I find the struggle is finding the right gear to stick to 20. It’s too fast for 2nd gear, but a bit too slow for third, at least that’s the case for our car.
but going much slower for no reason could get you pulled over
I feel like this is something everyone says but how often does this actually happen? Not often I’d guess, unless the police officer is bored, or it’s at an hour where they’re out looking for drunk drivers anyway
The issue isn’t driving slow, it is about why are you driving slow. Transporting something delicate? Poor weather conditions? Engine troubles and getting to a mechanic? Probably fine
Drunk, texting, unfit to drive, unable to see clearly, medical condition? Different story.
you would fail to pass your test on if you were driving under the limit for no reason.
So you need to break the law to pass your driving test? Carbrainism is wild.
No? You need to drive at the speed limit when it’s safe - not over it or under it.
There is likely a buffer of a few miles over/under, more generous on the under. The needle can be hard to read exactly the speed, our feet aren’t perfectly calibrated, turns and hills could reduce speed, different sized tires could even make the dash speedometer inaccurate.
Im sure doing 17 in a 20 zone is fine.
Yep. I live in Wales, and I agree with pretty much everything you’ve said. I wrote a long reply to a similar post a little while back that’s here if anyone wants to read it:
https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/12463901
The gist of it is though that the speed limit was badly implemented, was announced at around the same time as the bus budget was slashed and major railway work started, and has caused the number of running buses to be reduced.
The changes were supposed to be a way to push people onto public transport, but now instead of the buses running every 10 minutes, they’re every 15 minutes. The railway work has literally finished this week. Our local MS (Welsh equivalent to an MP) posted today that she rode on the first electric train. A train that’s had the toilets removed and takes longer to get back from the nearest city.
Let me guess, it’s the usual war between anyone who thinks of others as a priority versus anyone who think of themselves first?
Because everything has to become a culture war topic when you don’t have any goals and policies and an artificially created culture war is all you have.
After seeing vaccines become a culture war battle front in several countries you should know that absolutely nothing is too stupid.
These kinds of laws need to be turned into physical infrastructure (or a requirement for any new repair or development).
Not killing children is a woke conspiracy to emasculate true, red blooded Americans! I mean British! I mean Welsh! They turned the friggin’ frogs gay!
The number of drivers I see here in Wales that seem to feel that they should be allowed to drive whatever speed they want boggles my mind. It’s so tremendously selfish.
Something that does amuse me is the number of drivers I see do 30 mph in the centre of my town - because it never makes any difference how quickly they get there. The traffic density is such that they simply end up waiting at the next traffic light, roundabout, junction, etc… The lights will change and they’ll zip off and I’ll chug along at 20 mph - only to meet them as they sit waiting. I’ve even had some of them overtake me to get to the red light sooner.
Over entitled children.
It wasn’t that long ago that nobody drove cars to school. This is probably a complete non issue in places like the Netherlands. I was banned from bringing my daughter to school on a bike because they reckoned it was dangerous. The irony that cars were allowed past the gates but not bicycles was lost along the way. I kept doing it anyway because fuck cars.
Visited mid Wales last month. There was nothing wrong with the speed limits. People need to suck it up.
Of course it feels slow in certain areas, and a few really didn’t need the limit cut, but it’s hardly an inconvenience. I don’t think people realise just how little a difference it makes to your journey time, yet the benefits are clear.
Not to mention I’m just up the road from Sunderland. Shall I go give that tory twat a slap? 👍
Where were you during the vaccination years?
Everything starts to make more sense if you imagine what you might do as a billionaire capitalist: Imagine you are an automotive tycoon and progressives keep trying to make it harder for people to drive and own cars which in turn may reduce the demand for cars which could cost you and buddies billions in the long run! Save lives? You don’t know anything about traffic engineering and your yes men assure you that cars are perfectly safe (and when they aren’t it is clearly the victims fault)… All you know is, your wealth is under attack! So you use the lobbyists, politicians and capitalist propaganda outlets (privately owned news media) to attack the issue, to defend your wealth. In turn, by sheer volume of disinformation and propaganda, you turn the public against their own interests and protect your wealth.
Sadly, that is exactly the state of things. Working class stiffs are incredibly susceptible to propaganda and disinformation (if they weren’t then companies wouldn’t spend billions every year on advertising)
