But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse[b] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”
“‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.”
23 “‘The priest is to write these curses on a scroll and then wash them off into the bitter water. 24 He shall make the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and this water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering will enter her. 25 The priest is to take from her hands the grain offering for jealousy, wave it before the Lord and bring it to the altar. 26 The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorial[c] offering and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. 27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse. 28 If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.
That’s about infertility. The NIV isn’t a very good translation and focuses less on what the text actually says and easy readability. A more accurate translation is the NRSV (although the ESV or even the KJV doesn’t make this mistake- although it depends on whether you want to translate “thigh” as “womb” or literally render it, as thigh is a euphemism. However, the word “miscarry” in the sense that we understand it is not there)
[27] When he has made her drink the water, then, if she has defiled herself and has been unfaithful to her husband, the water that brings the curse shall enter into her and cause bitter pain, and her womb shall discharge, her uterus drop, and the woman shall become an execration among her people. [28] But if the woman has not defiled herself and is clean, then she shall be immune and be able to conceive children.
Verse 28 says “be able to conceive children”. It’s quite clear that she wasn’t already pregnant at this point.
Dude what, no, it’s saying hey if you’re not preggers you can still make a baby. If you’ve “defiled [your]self” then you’re gonna have an abortion when you drink that water. Very explicitly that’s what is being communicated through the text.
Dancing around translations is just some hand waving bullshit, also maybe we should consider the text isn’t some infallible word of God when you’re saying a different translation changes the meaning of passages. Just as an aside.
I just picked the first translation the Google search gave. Feel free to read your same thing phrased some other way in another translation.
Besides that is the only thing the Bible actually says about abortion. The anti abortion stuff is a very modern thing.
Ok well you’re just being purposely obtuse if you think being made to drink a prepared water after committing adultery and then proceeding to miscarry doesn’t mean you were pregnant.
They’re not exactly using contraception.
Regardless of the translation, it’s pretty clear these are instructions on how to treat an adulterous woman and cause a miscarriage.
Well, you’re either actively trolling me or yourself at this point because obviously the absence of that word - while describing one - isn’t some gotcha.
Ok, sure it doesn’t have that specific word but it sure does have a description of one. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, I understand being wrapped up in biblical text and trying to defend it. Having faith and it being “attacked” can be hard and feels bad. I’m not trying to beat you up but take a step back and look at the whole picture.
That’s not up to you. All scripture is God breathed. Are you saying that God would allow his one and only true word to be mistranslated so poorly? Shame on you.
It is obviously both. A woman could be pregnant or not and the same thing would happen either forcing a miscarriage (aka an abortion) or become infertile. There is no where that indicates the woman’s current state of pregnancy or lack thereof so it must be both.
That’s not up to you. All scripture is God breathed. Are you saying that God would allow his one and only true word to be mistranslated so poorly? Shame on you.
There are several examples of mistranslations happening in major bible translations. Having this superstitious view about it being impossible to do a bad translation of the Bible is completely rubbish.
It says that she shall be free to conceive. How can you be free to conceive if you’re pregnant? You cannot conceive a child when pregnant. This scripture cannot be used in any way to justify abortion. You started on a poor translation of it from a disreputable translation (The NIV, often nicknamed the “Not Inspired Version”) and are now clutching at straws because I pointed out that it was clearly incorrect.
Incorrect. I’m starting from a translation which God himself allowed into the world. Since God allowed both of these translations then it must mean both things are correct. The woman in this situation could be pregnant or not. Stop questioning God’s power.
The Bible is not something for you to just pick and choose what you want it to say. Just because you already have an opinion on abortion doesn’t mean you can cherry pick different translations to support your pre conceived premise. Do you know Hebrew? Were you there when God gave this word to the Israelites? No? Then all we have is the Bible that God himself allowed to be put out into the world. You don’t get to question what God has provided and manipulate His word for your own selfish, political talking points. It’s honestly really troublesome and borderline heretical. I’m worried for your soul. Stop speaking for God and let Him speak for Himself.
The Bible that was put out into the world was in Hebrew which does not mention anything to do with a miscarriage. To say that because it exists it is permissible, is like saying that the holocaust was morally okay and correct because “God allowed it to happen”
The Bible does not say that every historical event is God breathed. Only that the Bible itself is. You’re gambling with your eternal soul to make a political talking point. Blasphemy is a serious issue. Please consider what you’re doing.
Source?
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers 5%3A11-31&version=NIV
But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse[b] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”
“‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.”
23 “‘The priest is to write these curses on a scroll and then wash them off into the bitter water. 24 He shall make the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and this water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering will enter her. 25 The priest is to take from her hands the grain offering for jealousy, wave it before the Lord and bring it to the altar. 26 The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorial[c] offering and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. 27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse. 28 If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.
That’s about infertility. The NIV isn’t a very good translation and focuses less on what the text actually says and easy readability. A more accurate translation is the NRSV (although the ESV or even the KJV doesn’t make this mistake- although it depends on whether you want to translate “thigh” as “womb” or literally render it, as thigh is a euphemism. However, the word “miscarry” in the sense that we understand it is not there)
[27] When he has made her drink the water, then, if she has defiled herself and has been unfaithful to her husband, the water that brings the curse shall enter into her and cause bitter pain, and her womb shall discharge, her uterus drop, and the woman shall become an execration among her people. [28] But if the woman has not defiled herself and is clean, then she shall be immune and be able to conceive children.
Verse 28 says “be able to conceive children”. It’s quite clear that she wasn’t already pregnant at this point.
Dude what, no, it’s saying hey if you’re not preggers you can still make a baby. If you’ve “defiled [your]self” then you’re gonna have an abortion when you drink that water. Very explicitly that’s what is being communicated through the text.
Dancing around translations is just some hand waving bullshit, also maybe we should consider the text isn’t some infallible word of God when you’re saying a different translation changes the meaning of passages. Just as an aside.
I just picked the first translation the Google search gave. Feel free to read your same thing phrased some other way in another translation.
Besides that is the only thing the Bible actually says about abortion. The anti abortion stuff is a very modern thing.
Defiled yourself via committing adultery.
You can translate anything terribly, doesn’t discount the original work.
Ok well you’re just being purposely obtuse if you think being made to drink a prepared water after committing adultery and then proceeding to miscarry doesn’t mean you were pregnant.
They’re not exactly using contraception.
Regardless of the translation, it’s pretty clear these are instructions on how to treat an adulterous woman and cause a miscarriage.
The word “miscarry” isn’t there. Being made infertile and having heavy periods constantly would make you an unclean curse to the people around you.
Well, you’re either actively trolling me or yourself at this point because obviously the absence of that word - while describing one - isn’t some gotcha.
Ok, sure it doesn’t have that specific word but it sure does have a description of one. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, I understand being wrapped up in biblical text and trying to defend it. Having faith and it being “attacked” can be hard and feels bad. I’m not trying to beat you up but take a step back and look at the whole picture.
It’s always endlessly fascinating to me how “fundamentalists” think God speaks in metaphor only when it’s convenient for them personally.
Elaborate why you’re saying that and what you mean?
That’s not up to you. All scripture is God breathed. Are you saying that God would allow his one and only true word to be mistranslated so poorly? Shame on you.
It is obviously both. A woman could be pregnant or not and the same thing would happen either forcing a miscarriage (aka an abortion) or become infertile. There is no where that indicates the woman’s current state of pregnancy or lack thereof so it must be both.
There are several examples of mistranslations happening in major bible translations. Having this superstitious view about it being impossible to do a bad translation of the Bible is completely rubbish.
It says that she shall be free to conceive. How can you be free to conceive if you’re pregnant? You cannot conceive a child when pregnant. This scripture cannot be used in any way to justify abortion. You started on a poor translation of it from a disreputable translation (The NIV, often nicknamed the “Not Inspired Version”) and are now clutching at straws because I pointed out that it was clearly incorrect.
Incorrect. I’m starting from a translation which God himself allowed into the world. Since God allowed both of these translations then it must mean both things are correct. The woman in this situation could be pregnant or not. Stop questioning God’s power.
The Bible is not something for you to just pick and choose what you want it to say. Just because you already have an opinion on abortion doesn’t mean you can cherry pick different translations to support your pre conceived premise. Do you know Hebrew? Were you there when God gave this word to the Israelites? No? Then all we have is the Bible that God himself allowed to be put out into the world. You don’t get to question what God has provided and manipulate His word for your own selfish, political talking points. It’s honestly really troublesome and borderline heretical. I’m worried for your soul. Stop speaking for God and let Him speak for Himself.
The Bible that was put out into the world was in Hebrew which does not mention anything to do with a miscarriage. To say that because it exists it is permissible, is like saying that the holocaust was morally okay and correct because “God allowed it to happen”
The Bible does not say that every historical event is God breathed. Only that the Bible itself is. You’re gambling with your eternal soul to make a political talking point. Blasphemy is a serious issue. Please consider what you’re doing.