I was watching pro golf coverage on the news and it seems so odd that men and women compete separately - same goes with pro bowling. Just seems weird to me that a game of skill is gendered when you can’t even raise an argument that someone might have an advantage because of what’s between their legs.
Isn’t there a general consesus in sports that testosterone makes a big difference?
I believe that is the common reasoning behind the separate leagues in any sports.
Even if it is completely skill-based, might as well keep it separate for good measure. At least no one will argue the outcome of a match with something as silly as “gender-bias.”
I see where you’re coming from (I heard from a friend who heard from a friend) but I guess that depends on who you’re asking and what the sport is. Golf is hand-eye coordination, practice and skill. Balls or ovaries, it shouldn’t make any difference when it comes to golf.
Fun fact: bowling, pool and darts are also gendered in many leagues. Pretty sure testosterone wouldn’t be the deciding factor in the winner in those.
I hear what you’re saying. While golf does have a significant amount of raw muscularity into it (just take a look on average drive distances: for example where men typically average out about 60 yards further) and might make some sense separated out, skill sports where dexterity and control play the only role seem to me to be fair cross genders.
Precision shooting is a good example where the divide doesn’t make a lot of sense.
Shooting sports in the Olympics had one all-gender competition until a woman won. Mysteriously, she was prevented from defending her title because it became a “men’s” competition the next time round. (I want to say they didn’t even have a women’s event in the next Olympics, but I could be misremembering.)
Well that’s deeply disappointing yet sadly not all that surprising.
Interesting, I was unaware of the drive difference between men and women. I still stand by my overall stance in that if its pure skill I don’t see much need to separate, as @hoyland pointed out shooting would would be a good example.
Cis women generally can’t drive as far as men, which is why they play from different tees. I’d guess that’s part of the reason they play separately.
Exactly. I’m all for gender equality and not treating trans people like second class citizens, but let’s not pretend that gender has nothing to do with all sports. I don’t play golf, so I did some looking around on the subject, and it seems like the womens’ courses are shorter than the men’s, for precisely the reason you describe. And some people think they need to be even shorter, because at the pro level LPGA scores are generally worse than PGA scores, even with the current course length difference. I infer that the technological advances that are affecting sports equipment have a much larger positive effect on the men’s game than the women’s, so tech is permitting the men to drive longer while not having quite the same effect for women.
I get all this from this USA today article, but it matches what I’ve read elsewhere:
https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2021/03/16/lpga-golf-course-setups-womens-golf-pga-tour/
Now, with all this said, I think that any decisions to limit sports participation based on gender (and the implications for trans people) should be made by the people who govern the sport itself, because they have the most data, and also the best idea of what good competition looks like in their sport. I don’t have any confidence that politicians can make decisions on this in good faith, no matter how many golf courses they own.
Regarding golf, the PGA is not a gendered league. Women and non-binary individuals are allowed to play in top level events and several women have done so.
https://www.golflink.com/facts_35396_has-a-woman-ever-played-on-the-pga-tour.html
I’m sure to some degree gender impacts opportunity to play golf, but women and girls from families with means do enjoy accessible training and competition these days. Among top non-male players, biology is the greatest limiting factor.
I hesitate to attack women’s leagues like the LPGA or WTA. They comes with problems, but also let us watch many of the best athletes in the world compete in their sports. That the world’s best female golfers cannot drive as far as male golfers does not diminish their ability to play the game. A good male collegiate golfer can beat an LPGA pro on a typical PGA course setup, the course length of which plays to the college player’s strengths, but only through brute force. Women’s leagues provide an opportunity for skilled individuals to show their skills.
Those leagues are also important for representation and promoting the game for everyone. If leagues like the LPGA didn’t exist, I do not think golf would be as acceptable for women and do not think girls and women would enjoy the access to training, equipment, and competitions they now have. As a result fewer women would reach the heights they do, up to and including playing PGA events.
It’s true that in sport gender is often used as a cudgel. However, after getting past blatant sexism, gender in sport is a very complex issue. Separation based on gender comes with some good that should not be dismissed out of hand. It’s not on par with something like, “Wet wipes should not be gendered,” which is not complex at all.
No, there’s just a pervasive, misogynistic, and deeply hateful idea that men will always defeat women in sports, no matter what, no matter the skill level. Just that men are so much stronger and more capable, that they’ll trounce women 100% of the time. It’s the idea that a man who has never picked up a tennis racket in his life can walk onto the court with Serena Williams and win, based solely on the fact that he’s a man. And people try to hide behind faulty, flawed, and wildly incorrect understandings of science to try to justify it.
And it’s just not true.
The reality is, so many male egos are so incredibly fragile, that the idea of losing to a woman is simply inconceivable. So they just never allow the situation to happen.
But since it actually is all skill-based, then there’s no reason to have separate gendered teams.
We’re not talking “average joe” taking on Serena Williams. It’s pro-athletes on both sides.
And in most physical sports, being able to build muscle faster is considered an advantage. Even Serena Williams seems to agree on that point.
And yes, there are a lot of fragile egos in sports. So it makes sense to keep the leagues separate, as I said, it wouldn’t do to have professionals cry foul and blame it on genders when they lost. There’s enough stupid shit like that already.
Plus, if it turned out that it did make a difference, I don’t think it would be as fun for the ones that didn’t end up domineering the top placements.
Why don’t we figure out how to identify differences that do matter and are commonly correlated with sex… the way boxing has weight classes? For instance, if testosterone level is the thing (not a sports scientist, I have no idea if it is), make 3-4 classes based on that. (If you only have 2 classes, people will figure out how to make it a sex-based thing.). Your sex isn’t the issue. That criterion is the issue. That way, differences are dealt with without everyone having to fit into 2 rigid gender categories, and the categories there are based on relevant traits. Plus, it doesn’t exclude intersex people.