For point 1 : From my understanding, it is a bit more than not signing a piece of paper. Not participating in the signature of a founding document like a constitution seems like a good recipe to create resentment long term. If it was just an admin task to sign it, why not re-open that document for signature ? I’m not even judging the situation that lead to this, just the impact it has today.
For point 2 : While I don’t disagree that it’s a bit odd to have a party at the federal level that defend provincial interest, there is an underlying issue that lead peoples to vote for them. And no one is really interested to have this embarassing discussion 😅
For point 3 : I’m not knowledgeable enough to say if Quebec receive or give more, even if I doubt that this is a black and white answer
Not knowledgeable enough? Look up equalization payments then. Quebec gets the majority of equalization payments, and has gotten such for literally decades, because they’re considered a “have not” province. Like last year (2024) they got around $13 billion (52% of the total amount handed out) – from Western Canada, as the region that is historically termed “have” provinces (every province except BC, Alberta and Sask got money, those western provinces just ‘lost’ billions to support the rest of Canada). That money is no strings attached, which allows Quebec to do stuff like offer additional social supports, and then the people of Quebec get to look down their noses at the West, and say crap like “Why aren’t your education options cheaper? Peasants!”. Maybe they would be, if we could keep our tax revenue, rather than being forced to support Quebec.
Even more insulting, those payments are a result of the Constitution. If Quebec doesn’t want to sign, fine, don’t give them the Western province’s money. Or how bout those Bloc folks take a principled stance and just hand the money back to the West. They don’t agree with the constitution, but seem perfectly content to reap the benefits from it. They’re good with Canada so long as they can sponge.
This isn’t a new issue from the Western provinces. It’s been ongoing for decades. Even as recently as 2018, with Kenney and Moe in Alberta and Sask, when the formula was last renewed at the fed level, there were releases about how pissed the west was with it – the feds renewed it without consulting the provinces, and without any changes to address the issues the west has with it. I’m guessing you’re from back east, which makes it entirely fitting that you’re completely ignorant of the issues on this side of the country.
As for the resentment long term, imagine a bunch of kids at a party. One kid loses a game and throws a tantrum and refuses to play with the others any more. The other kids bend over backward to try and get that kid to calm the fuck down. The kid refuses, even after everyone’s tried bribing him / treating him better than every other kid there. He keeps disrupting things and being a pain in the arse. He takes other kids toys and plays with them, while mocking those kids. Who would want that kid back at the next party. Continuing to spoil them, just re-enforces their negative behaviour. Sure, there may be “reasons” to be a spoiled little shit, but at some point Quebec ought to grow up and look outside their own border. Resentment cuts both ways, and based on the realities of ‘today’, Quebec’s got a lot less to complain about than western provinces.
Like I listened to some of that debate yesterday. The gall of that Bloc guy being all “Carney hasn’t called me to consult on what’s best for Quebec, he can’t be trusted” is just lunacy. And that’s the sort of narcissitic self-centered dipshit that Quebec supports. Like if the fed was to consult anyone about Quebec’s provincial interests, it would be a meeting with the premiers, which is what happened. If some minority leader in the house, who refuses to treat national issues as national issues, wants to throw a hissy fit about how the people dealing with a crisis aren’t directly consulting with them in their self-aggrandized role… that leader should be tossed the hell out. Asking a national party, during a national crisis, with national support, to come bend the knee for some minority party with (quite literally) an anti-national agenda, is beyond ‘not helping’. And saying that stuff, and broadcasting it to the whole country, should be embarrassing for the people he represents. But people in Quebec are likely to be all “he stands up for us!”, similar to how dumbass Ford was able to get back in just by draping himself in a f’ing flag to distract people from the damage his govt does on the whole.
Only taking into account the equalization in the calculus seems a bit limited, they are others factors that allow economic growth like access to cheap energy, transport, educated workforce, defense, etc…
Believing that so many peoples vote because they want to throw a tantrum seems shortsighted if you want to unite peoples and believe Quebec should be part of Canada. We give you money so you should just shut the fuck up won’t build a nation.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t believe the equalization system seems fair, but the condescending tone won’t convince peoples to change.
What tone do you think the Bloc has when dealing with the rest of Canada, exactly? Which is more significant, some guy online having a bit of a tone – or a political party that’s getting a ton of votes in Quebec who is condescending / not willing to work with the rest of the country? I think on this one, me voicing frustrations online is the lesser of the two faults.
And I’m not saying take the money and shut up. I’m saying give us back the money because the system is unfairly penalizing western Canada and benefiting Quebec/Eastern Canada, and has been doing so for literally decades. I’m also saying, essentially, “Don’t bite the hand that feeds you”. The Bloc happily bites that hand and attempts to disrupt / destabilize the nation. They are a separatist movement at their core. All the negativity people have for Danielle Smith’s antics are warranted in my view – and that goes 10x for the Bloc and Quebec. Smith may be ‘threatening’ referendums on unity, the Bloc’s actually gone further in the past, and it still overtly prioritizes “Quebec” over the country/national unity. A vote for the Bloc is as shameful as a vote for any other group looking to destroy Canada.
And it’s an online post. Not an attempt to build a nation. I see nothing wrong with expressing frustrations with the Blocs/Quebec’s entitled BS, especially when it’s thrown in our faces as part of an election campaign. Hell, there were already people in this thread who had no idea equalization payments were a thing, had no idea why Western Canadians are often pissed off at Ottawa/Quebec. Hundreds of billions of dollars over the years, unnoticed. At the very least, it helps to educate other people about the ‘reasons’ for Western Alienation, even if it simultaneously proves/justifies it a bit by highlighting how little the rest of Canada thinks about the Western half.
For point 1 : From my understanding, it is a bit more than not signing a piece of paper. Not participating in the signature of a founding document like a constitution seems like a good recipe to create resentment long term. If it was just an admin task to sign it, why not re-open that document for signature ? I’m not even judging the situation that lead to this, just the impact it has today. For point 2 : While I don’t disagree that it’s a bit odd to have a party at the federal level that defend provincial interest, there is an underlying issue that lead peoples to vote for them. And no one is really interested to have this embarassing discussion 😅 For point 3 : I’m not knowledgeable enough to say if Quebec receive or give more, even if I doubt that this is a black and white answer
Not knowledgeable enough? Look up equalization payments then. Quebec gets the majority of equalization payments, and has gotten such for literally decades, because they’re considered a “have not” province. Like last year (2024) they got around $13 billion (52% of the total amount handed out) – from Western Canada, as the region that is historically termed “have” provinces (every province except BC, Alberta and Sask got money, those western provinces just ‘lost’ billions to support the rest of Canada). That money is no strings attached, which allows Quebec to do stuff like offer additional social supports, and then the people of Quebec get to look down their noses at the West, and say crap like “Why aren’t your education options cheaper? Peasants!”. Maybe they would be, if we could keep our tax revenue, rather than being forced to support Quebec.
Even more insulting, those payments are a result of the Constitution. If Quebec doesn’t want to sign, fine, don’t give them the Western province’s money. Or how bout those Bloc folks take a principled stance and just hand the money back to the West. They don’t agree with the constitution, but seem perfectly content to reap the benefits from it. They’re good with Canada so long as they can sponge.
This isn’t a new issue from the Western provinces. It’s been ongoing for decades. Even as recently as 2018, with Kenney and Moe in Alberta and Sask, when the formula was last renewed at the fed level, there were releases about how pissed the west was with it – the feds renewed it without consulting the provinces, and without any changes to address the issues the west has with it. I’m guessing you’re from back east, which makes it entirely fitting that you’re completely ignorant of the issues on this side of the country.
As for the resentment long term, imagine a bunch of kids at a party. One kid loses a game and throws a tantrum and refuses to play with the others any more. The other kids bend over backward to try and get that kid to calm the fuck down. The kid refuses, even after everyone’s tried bribing him / treating him better than every other kid there. He keeps disrupting things and being a pain in the arse. He takes other kids toys and plays with them, while mocking those kids. Who would want that kid back at the next party. Continuing to spoil them, just re-enforces their negative behaviour. Sure, there may be “reasons” to be a spoiled little shit, but at some point Quebec ought to grow up and look outside their own border. Resentment cuts both ways, and based on the realities of ‘today’, Quebec’s got a lot less to complain about than western provinces.
Like I listened to some of that debate yesterday. The gall of that Bloc guy being all “Carney hasn’t called me to consult on what’s best for Quebec, he can’t be trusted” is just lunacy. And that’s the sort of narcissitic self-centered dipshit that Quebec supports. Like if the fed was to consult anyone about Quebec’s provincial interests, it would be a meeting with the premiers, which is what happened. If some minority leader in the house, who refuses to treat national issues as national issues, wants to throw a hissy fit about how the people dealing with a crisis aren’t directly consulting with them in their self-aggrandized role… that leader should be tossed the hell out. Asking a national party, during a national crisis, with national support, to come bend the knee for some minority party with (quite literally) an anti-national agenda, is beyond ‘not helping’. And saying that stuff, and broadcasting it to the whole country, should be embarrassing for the people he represents. But people in Quebec are likely to be all “he stands up for us!”, similar to how dumbass Ford was able to get back in just by draping himself in a f’ing flag to distract people from the damage his govt does on the whole.
Only taking into account the equalization in the calculus seems a bit limited, they are others factors that allow economic growth like access to cheap energy, transport, educated workforce, defense, etc… Believing that so many peoples vote because they want to throw a tantrum seems shortsighted if you want to unite peoples and believe Quebec should be part of Canada. We give you money so you should just shut the fuck up won’t build a nation. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t believe the equalization system seems fair, but the condescending tone won’t convince peoples to change.
What tone do you think the Bloc has when dealing with the rest of Canada, exactly? Which is more significant, some guy online having a bit of a tone – or a political party that’s getting a ton of votes in Quebec who is condescending / not willing to work with the rest of the country? I think on this one, me voicing frustrations online is the lesser of the two faults.
And I’m not saying take the money and shut up. I’m saying give us back the money because the system is unfairly penalizing western Canada and benefiting Quebec/Eastern Canada, and has been doing so for literally decades. I’m also saying, essentially, “Don’t bite the hand that feeds you”. The Bloc happily bites that hand and attempts to disrupt / destabilize the nation. They are a separatist movement at their core. All the negativity people have for Danielle Smith’s antics are warranted in my view – and that goes 10x for the Bloc and Quebec. Smith may be ‘threatening’ referendums on unity, the Bloc’s actually gone further in the past, and it still overtly prioritizes “Quebec” over the country/national unity. A vote for the Bloc is as shameful as a vote for any other group looking to destroy Canada.
And it’s an online post. Not an attempt to build a nation. I see nothing wrong with expressing frustrations with the Blocs/Quebec’s entitled BS, especially when it’s thrown in our faces as part of an election campaign. Hell, there were already people in this thread who had no idea equalization payments were a thing, had no idea why Western Canadians are often pissed off at Ottawa/Quebec. Hundreds of billions of dollars over the years, unnoticed. At the very least, it helps to educate other people about the ‘reasons’ for Western Alienation, even if it simultaneously proves/justifies it a bit by highlighting how little the rest of Canada thinks about the Western half.
Are you discussing with the bloc right now? Just seems like you don’t get it. Enjoy election day :)