I’m mostly asking this question for smartphones, but I’m also just generally curious how others approach this.

My parents are both 75+ and live across the country. One has a smartphone and a chromebook and the other has a dumbphone and has a Windows laptop. They’re capable, but learning new things is pretty hard, and if anything goes a bit wrong they’re very unlikely to figure out how to get past it themselves.

The Windows laptop is easiest to manage because I can remote in and fix things pretty quick, and browser extensions prevent the ads which might lead to signing up for new services. I gave up on trying to figure out how to remote into the chromebook.

The smartphone is the most problematic since browser extensions are limited and don’t apply to the Google News app, where my dad spends a lot of his time. He’s managed to install a bunch of random apps that he doesn’t remember ever using, so now I have Google FamilyLink installed which should prevent that. But he also inadvertently long-presses on the home screen and moves icons around, removes them, adds new ones, etc.

I’m just looking for any tips people might have on this general topic. We’re all our family’s tech support in some way, it’s just getting more difficult for me as they get older.

  • Thalestr@beehaw.org
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    1 year ago

    My grandparents (both in their 80’s) have some iPads, phones, and a Windows laptop as well. It has been interesting learning about how they use them and what specific issues they encounter and how they deal with them.

    The Windows laptop was the first thing they abandoned. They like to pick up their devices, do a quick search online, then close them up and put them away again. They may not use the device again for another week or more; longer for the laptop. This meant that they used the laptop so infrequently that whenever they did try to use it - the battery was always dead and they would get absolutely hammered with Windows updates. They would then unplug the machine which would cause it to die (dead battery) when they were done using it for a few minutes, killing it mid-update. Multiply this a few dozen times over a year and you have a very very unhappy laptop and frustrated grandparents.

    The cellphones were another major issue. They’ve had several iPhones and a couple dumbphones/featurephones. The issue with the iPhones were the complexity and screen size. Trying to get an 80+ year old senior to use a tiny touchscreen keyboard is simply out of the question. Only one of them could read the screen and that’s because she had Lasik eye surgery. They also kept running into annoying little problems that I would have to fix whenever I visited. For example, they could not grasp the concept of a long-tap and how it invoked additional options. No matter how many times I instructed them, they simply would not lift their fingers off the screen fast enough. I highly recommend adjusting long-tap delay timing if you have elderly family with the same issue but this will vary greatly by device; I don’t think the iPhone had it. The dumbphone worked a bit better, especially as we got them one with big chunky buttons they could easily see and press. The problem was that they used it so infrequently that the battery was always dead and they always lost the charging cable and/or forgot which cable was which. To this day, they basically never use it and we’ve been trying to get them to cancel the phone plan for it because it’s wasting them money.

    By far the biggest success has been their iPads. They really enjoy sitting in their chairs and browsing the net with the larger, brigther, and clearer screens. I adjusted font sizes to be easier on their eyes and they both find it much easier to navigate on them and press buttons. The long-tap issue is still here but it’s not as bad. They’re less likely to inadvertently tap stuff because they can see easier. I still have to put some stuff back into place when I visit them, but that’s just normal grandparent-visiting stuff.

    side note: One thing I noticed they really hated across all devices (and frankly, I hate it too) are pop-ups. Not pop-up ads because I blocked those for them, but app or system pop-ups. If they open an app and they get hit with 15 unskippable tutorial pop-ups, they will just hit the lock button and walk away. They will come back later, wake the device up, see they still have to go through with the tutorial, and then call me and ask how it “broke”. I highly suggest configuring devices to minimize this as much as possible. It makes them feel like they are losing control over the device and makes them panic or get frustrated, and honestly I can’t blame them. It’s horrible ux design.

    • middlemuddle@beehaw.orgOP
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      1 year ago

      side note: One thing I noticed they really hated across all devices (and frankly, I hate it too) are pop-ups. Not pop-up ads because I blocked those for them, but app or system pop-ups. If they open an app and they get hit with 15 unskippable tutorial pop-ups, they will just hit the lock button and walk away. They will come back later, wake the device up, see they still have to go through with the tutorial, and then call me and ask how it “broke”. I highly suggest configuring devices to minimize this as much as possible. It makes them feel like they are losing control over the device and makes them panic or get frustrated, and honestly I can’t blame them. It’s horrible ux design.

      Do you have any tips for this? This is an issue that plagues all their devices. Not just tutorials, but warnings and update messages, too. From a security perspective, app updates are important, but they always seem to bring some new info pop-up, whether on a phone or a laptop. My parents don’t get frustrated and walk away, but they definitely never read the pop-ups.

      • Thalestr@beehaw.org
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        1 year ago

        I don’t have anything conclusive to offer, especially as it will vary greatly by device and apps used. I tried to get around it as much as possible by having them use native apps and setting things to update automatically. I also pre-opened every app on their device to get the tutorial pop-ups completed so they wouldn’t have to deal with them. They haven’t complained about it for a while now, so I assume everything must be alright.

        • middlemuddle@beehaw.orgOP
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          1 year ago

          I also pre-opened every app on their device to get the tutorial pop-ups completed so they wouldn’t have to deal with them.

          This is a very good point and I often forget to do it for all apps.

  • AttackBunny@beehaw.org
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    1 year ago

    My mother (mid 70s) and grandmother (early 90s) are obstinate. They wont even TRY to learn how ANY tech works. Neither even understand how to use their dumb cordless house phones 99% of the time. They both have dumb flip phones for emergencies and neither has a computer or tablet.

    2 things I can tell you. 1. Regardless of what they WANT, get them tech that YOU can work with, and refuse to help them with anything else. And 2. Set realistic expectations, from the get go, on how much you can/will help them, and what YOUR schedule allows. Maybe it’s because my family are all narcissistic assholes, but they will suck you dry with the constant needs. I find that the older people get, regardless of their personalities they seemingly all get way more needy like toddlers or worse.

    • middlemuddle@beehaw.orgOP
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      1 year ago

      I’m pretty fortunate in that my family doesn’t harbor unreal expectations, though I could see how that might happen. They ask me for help, but it’s always based on my availability and they just live with a situation until I get around to fixing it. I’ve set boundaries before, and they respect them. I want to get my mom a smartphone because she loves taking pictures and carries an old Canon camera everywhere. It’d be a steep learning curve for her to pickup a smartphone now, but I’d like to set some guardrails around the experience so it’s, 1) not too intimidating for her, 2) not too burdensome for me to support, and 3) gives her a better option for an activity she enjoys.

      • AttackBunny@beehaw.org
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        1 year ago

        My mother still gets those disposable film cameras and then has the film developed. I feel your pain.

        I gusss the biggest question is is that even something your mom wants. If yes, I personally feel like the iPhone is the most user friendly smartphone for older people, but I understand the way people feel about them.

        Either way if she wants to learn how to use is, then set some time aside, and go through everything step by step, together, in person. Then either she can take notes, or you can give her a “how to manual” that’s specifically for what she wants to use most frequently.

        Something like to take a pic select this icon.

        If you can’t find an app, go to Home Screen and click search above the bottom bar. Type the name.

        How to get to Home Screen. Swipe up from bottom of screen.

        And so on.

        That way she can have analog version of what she really needs to know and anything else you can help when you can. It’s not foolproof, but I’ve seen it work well for a lot of things.

        • middlemuddle@beehaw.orgOP
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          1 year ago

          she can take notes

          Oh lordy, that woman will absolutely take notes. :)

          Appreciate the suggestions, your approach does sound like a generally good way to keep it simple.

          • AttackBunny@beehaw.org
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            1 year ago

            lol. If she is a huge note taker, it may be better to you to basically make her a quick start guide yourself, so the top 10 things she’ll need to know as on like 1 piece or paper. Either way, good luck!

          • AttackBunny@beehaw.org
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            1 year ago

            lol. If she is a huge note taker, it may be better to you to basically make her a quick start guide yourself, so the top 10 things she’ll need to know as on like 1 piece or paper. Either way, good luck!

          • AttackBunny@beehaw.org
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            1 year ago

            lol. If she is a huge note taker, it may be better to you to basically make her a quick start guide yourself, so the top 10 things she’ll need to know as on like 1 piece or paper. Either way, good luck!

  • PostmodernPythia@beehaw.org
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    1 year ago

    I strongly suggest getting them to check out their local library. Library staff often have knowledge and practice working with older people who may have skills deficits. Even if there aren’t formal classes, often, someone will be willing to help. Sometimes, branches have a dedicated tech staffer. That can spread the workload out a bit, and allow them to have someone local to help, as well.

    • middlemuddle@beehaw.orgOP
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      1 year ago

      I swear I responded to this before, but this is a great idea! I don’t see any immediate options at their local branch, but I’ll do some more searching.

      • PostmodernPythia@beehaw.org
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        1 year ago

        Thanks. I spent the last 6 years working in public libraries. 😉

        ETA: Some services may be informal, so be sure to call as well as checking the web.

  • RealAccountNameHere@beehaw.org
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    1 year ago

    One of the concepts that has helped me in the past is to think about how the most important piece of media for a lot of elderly people’s lives was the newspaper. When you consider how it was organized—nothing at the top of the first page really matters (all the title and date stuff), the important items are clearly labeled with headlines, advertising was obvious and separate, et cetera—it makes sense why they don’t understand modern UI. I feel like a lot of them also still have the attitude of “if it weren’t true, they wouldn’t be allowed to print it.”

  • tom5760@beehaw.org
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    1 year ago

    I don’t have any great advice for phones, so definitely looking forward to reading everyone else’s replies, but:

    I gave up on trying to figure out how to remote into the chromebook.

    Does Chrome Remote Desktop work on Chromebooks? I’ve had really good luck with this in general for PC support.

    • middlemuddle@beehaw.orgOP
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      1 year ago

      Does Chrome Remote Desktop work on Chromebooks?

      It doesn’t work for unattended access. I have to coordinate with my dad so that he can open the site and send me an access code, which doesn’t sound that hard, but definitely never goes smoothly. It’s a very Google move for a service they provide on a device they built to not have full functionality.

      • tom5760@beehaw.org
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        1 year ago

        It doesn’t work for unattended access.

        Aha. Didn’t think about unattended access… Good luck!

  • flatbield@beehaw.org
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    1 year ago

    Use android and TeamViewer. For Linux and Windows you can used VNC tunneled over ssh or other solutions. iOS sucks. Do not know how to do remote control there since things like team viewer to not work.

  • noseatbelt@beehaw.org
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    1 year ago

    Thankfully this isn’t a problem for my parents who are in their 70s. My dad worked in IT so he’s always been tech savvy and he keeps my mom up to date. Mostly her only pitfall is using too many emojis. Smartphones were not really a problem when my grandparents were around, but they had issues with the cable box so my parents labelled the remote with which buttons to push and covered the rest of the irrelevant ones.

    I do have plenty of coworkers who don’t get technology, even younger ones. Their biggest problem is that they don’t want to understand. Some just lack the ability to problem solve. For those, I have written out explicit instructions on how to get from point A to point B. They don’t need to understand it I guess.

  • CrescentMadeJr@beehaw.org
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    1 year ago

    A combination of YouTube videos, team viewer and checkups when I visit them. It’s not always easy but the YouTube videos help a lot. There are some channels of older individuals that make videos for their generation to learn how to use stuff at a basic level and moving to some advanced things. It’s been a huge help.

    • middlemuddle@beehaw.orgOP
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      1 year ago

      You have any recommendations for YT videos? I’m not sure whether my folks would love that idea or hate it, but it certainly seems like it could be valuable.

  • Limeade@beehaw.org
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    1 year ago

    For reading news, I recommend getting a tablet and a case with a stand to prop it up at a comfortable reading angle. It’s easier to read with aging eyes than a smartphone. It will still have the accidental long press problem, but icons need to be dragged a longer distance to be rearranged so there is a better chance it will snap back into the right spot after an accidental long press. Someone needs to make an elderly-proof launcher that has a way to lock things in place on the home screen and disable that long press there. Maybe someone already has? I haven’t played with alternative launchers in years.

    I use Blokada 5 on my android phone which is a free, phone-wide ad blocker that runs as a local VPN based DNS service that blocks spam address DNS requests. They do have a newer version, 6, that’s cloud based instead of a local VPN and requires a subscription and I haven’t tried that out. Maybe that one is easier to reconfigure remotely if something important inadvertently gets blocked. The only reason I never tried it is I have a very limited income right now as a full-time caregiver. I have used Blokada 4 and then 5 for several years now.

    My pi-hole on my home network is also pretty set it and forget it and protects all of my mother-in-law’s devices while she is connected to the Wi-Fi, which is most of the time since she only ever wants to leave the house for doctor’s appointments or occasionally to eat out. I bought a cheap orange pi zero to set the pi-hole up on and it lives next to the router. My MIL is a 70+ year old gamer so she is a little bit more tech savvy than your average elderly person, but she constantly falls for ads and terrible tabloid clickbait that shows up in her news app.

    I kind of want to try setting up an RSS app for her with more curated news sources and see if that will give her a satisfactory news feed without all the junk. I used to use Google News, but it has become nothing but spammy tabloid links with no relevance to me. I mostly got my news through Reddit in recent years, but Lemmy reintroduced me to RSS and I’ve been working on collecting good news sources like back in the good old days before the social media firehose of info.

    Unfortunately (for the purpose of offering advice), I have no experience with remote tech support. My dad is a retired computer engineer so he’s got a handle on things at his place. I live with the tech-challenged person in my family.

    • middlemuddle@beehaw.orgOP
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      For some reason, I hadn’t even considered the use of Blokada or similar solution, even though I’m familiar with them and AdGuard-home locally. I’m definitely going to get a VPN or DNS based adblocker in place for them, that should help out a bit.

      RSS is also a really good idea, but I’ll admit that I’m a complete newb on that front. I have it on my list to explore RSS options for myself, so maybe I’ll consider my dad’s needs when I’m doing some digging, too.

  • frog 🐸@beehaw.org
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    1 year ago

    I have no answers, but I definitely appreciate everyone else’s suggestions. My parents (60s) live abroad, so what happens is once a year they come to visit, and it seems like every time, a device of some kind is handed to me or my spouse, with my dad going “it doesn’t do X anymore, can you fix it”. It’s always something that only takes a couple of minutes. I’m pretty sure sometimes it “breaks” months before and even though dad’s smart enough that he could follow instructions on how to fix it if he just asked (he used to do programming for banks and pension funds back in the 80s!), he’d rather wait until he can just hand it over for one of us to fix it for him.

    • middlemuddle@beehaw.orgOP
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      Annoyingly, unattended access isn’t an option on a Chromebook for Chrome Remote Desktop. It requires the user (my dad) opening the site, selecting the option for sharing a screen, then texting me the code. It doesn’t seem overly complex, but it never goes smoothly.

      My mom’s Windows laptop is great since I can just login at any point to fix something as long as she leaves it on.

  • PostmodernPythia@beehaw.org
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    1 year ago

    If the library gambit fails, some states/cities have departments of aging that might have resources. If you can’t get free help, you/they/someone could post/flyer at their local community college for CS majors who would like to help older people with tech. If you can’t get free help, that might be the best skill-to-cost ratio.

  • kelvinjps@beehaw.org
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    1 year ago

    my grandfather take notes of all these things. like step by step guide on how to use things