Lemmy’s machine-generated ORM SQL and hand-made flawed PostgreSQL TRIGGER logic is so bad, bloated. The developers on GitHub brag about “high performance”. It’s unbeliable.
In reality, small instances work because it has so many SQL performance problems that it mostly only is stable with little posts and comments in the database. They dd everything they could to avoid using Lemmy itself to discuss !lemmyperformance@lemmy.ml topics and hang out on Matrix Chat to avoid using the constantly-crashing servers they created.
If you go to a server with no users creating comments and posts and only has a tiny amount of data, it does crash a lot less.
You’re rocketderp based on your instability I’m guessing? Looks like your the only one that is nonsensical in that thread. Your PR isn’t a PR. You were rushing to someone that was being helpful but you still acted like a child with your advise of GitHub bugs and PRs and not using them properly. The other person in agreement with you at least is calm and rational. I’m guessing you never worked on a group project before or have had anyone disagree with you. Your commits broke the pipeline. Someone even tried calling you down, but you wouldn’t listen.
You’re rocketderp based on your instability I’m guessing?
Yes. My name is Stephen Alfred Gutknecht. It is clearly detailed here on my profile that I am “RocketDerp” on GitHub.
Looks like your the only one that is nonsensical in that thread.
Issue 2910? The word “nonsense” is being discussed about a Lemmy TRIGGER on June 4, 2023.
I’m guessing you never worked on a group project before or have had anyone disagree with you.
You would be guessing wrong. Since late 2019 I am in constant mental anguish and barely surviving. My communications is a constant struggle and I openly disclose this so that it is understood, I am not attempting to cover it up.
I’m guessing you never worked on a group project before
The “i’m guessing” game. And I note you can’t actually cite the Github issues by number (2910) or keep details here in fact. A lot of “guessing” going on.
based on your instability I’m guessing?
“guessing” again. Should I guess you do not know how difficult or easy it is to remove a TRIGGER in PostgreSQL that is causing server crashes?
You aren’t the victim here.
Why do you think this is about “me”? I haven’t donated money to the project or had blind faith in the developers.
You’re the bully.
I’m beyond frustrated that they seem to be going so far out of their way to have servers crash that their motives for doing so need explanation. “Social hazing” is the best answer I can come up with. I’ve now outright asked why they are dong it, because the pattern of behavior with trying to let server crashes has been going on now for months.
I have to admit that it’s amazing the number of people they have attracted with the server crashing. It’s been a social experience in some ways like Elon Musk is doing with Twitter. Perhaps it bothers me when other people actually seem to enjoy it. That seems to be the hiveMind reaction here. In that sense, if it is “social hazing”, it has worked very well.
The feature you suggest be ripped out is one that many people like. I’ve seen people say they hate Mastodon because “Likes” are only counted on the local server and they feel it’s useless. You can’t just suggest rip it out without a fix in its place.
Do we even know the read/write operations of the database are what’s pulling it down when it crashes? Sure it’s not the best code I’ve seen, but on large instances it still manages quite the uptime. Without insight into the cause of the crashes, you can’t honestly say “this, this right here.” Could it help? Probably. Do you need to suggest someone enjoys murdering people because they don’t immediately implement something? Probably not.
Just because you can’t think of another reason why they didn’t listen to you, it doesn’t mean that the one you thought of is correct. That’s not how logic works. It’s narcissistic to believe that you can think of every explanation for something that’s happening.
Just because you can’t think of another reason why they didn’t listen to you
I didn’t say anything, I was entirely silent, when the June 4 2023 issue 2910 was opened. So I don’t grasp why you think this is all about me. I never thought this was about me. The June 30 Reddit API deadline was what I thought this was all about when I was witnessing this.
I didn’t do pull request and add a new developer in the mix in June because it was such an easy problem to fix. It was when on June 13 that they still had not responded to the June 4 issue 2910 and did hardware upgrades on lemmy.ml that I started to interpret the situation differently. Instead of responding to Issue 2910 on Github, that same day on June 13 I started organizing Lemmy-specific PostgreSQL instructions on !lemmyperformance@lemmy.ml because servers were crashing even after the hardware upgrades.
I now realize, today, that my whole approach to this comes from experience running PostgreSQL in “mission critical” applications. What I have done with DB/2 and PostgreSQL wasn’t driven by social loyalty and “Taking on the Big Guys of Reddit and Twitter” that happens here. I’ve been all wrong to think that the developers don’t know exactly what they are doing. It’s like criticizing Hollywood for spending 3 million dollars on sets and clothes for 90 seconds of a film. I should have realized I was not understanding that social media sites run by social behavior models, not by technology concerns.
Elon Musk has done wild things since he took over Twitter and I didn’t take it so personal. I guess it was my memories and personal experience with PostgreSQL that haunted me too much. I was wrong. And i see how the lemmy community is loyal, so I can see just how wrong I am about the choices being made.
You jumping to politics and weird accusations of folks supporting murder as being the only reason they didn’t fix a postgres bug because, by your own words, you couldn’t think of any other reason.
You clearly have issues communicating and you are admittedly self aware yet you refuse to ever believe maybe those issues are the root of your arguments.
I could list 50 reasons I could think of. Many of which would be even more offensive. I didn’t sit patiently by watching June 4 issue 2910 go ignored because I was trying to over-react. In fact, I couldn’t believe what I was seeing as they upgraded hardware June 13 and continued to ignore the June 4 issue on Github. Even further when June 30 deadline for Reddit API came.
I have been very wrong in how I dealt with it this past 10 days, as I did not come to understand how much the community has come to enjoy the environment of Lemmy. Talking to you has enlightened now just how socially driven the whole platform is and that any training and experiences I have running mission-critical apps with PostgreSQL and DB2 on production servers do not apply here and I should have realized just how wrong my social interpretation of the situation has become.
It’s like watching the recent Nolan film release of Oppenheimer on IMAX. The massive size of the platters and how projectors have run into problems on opening night / first few days of showings. It’s about the style and cool factors, just because Lemmy uses PostgreSQL I considered reliability to be important, but now I clearly see I socially failed to understand how much the community here has come to adore Lemmy history and progression.
Rock Stars being criticized about their style and use of the technology was a huge mistake on my part. It’s all about putting on entertainment people like and the fans of the project are loyal to how it is done. I have been far too slow to recognize the “cool factor” of the Rock Star cultivation happening in front of me. I’m worried about the tire engine maintenance costs on an exotic sports car that draws huge crowds. Sorry I did not grasp that the crowds were so enamored and how that drives the project choices.
Heavy drinking, first time since New Years, reset my brain and I now re-interpret everything I learned about Lemmy history in a new light.
You’re spamming this all over this thread. Why don’t you go create a PR instead? If you think you have a better solution then go discuss it with the people who have the full context and try to get it fixed instead of complaining here.
It’s amazing how you have fallen hook line and sinker into believing that the problem is difficult to solve. It’s the agenda that is the problem.
They have people like you who will not read actual code to see that they only care about the fact that “Rust is cool programming language” and crashing code doesn’t get any priority.
They even started a new front-end Rust application this month, because they don’t care to bother with the core of the site, PostgreSQL doing INSERT and SELECT statements to load comments.
It’s amazing how you have fallen hook line and sinker into believing that the problem is difficult to solve. It’s the agenda that is the problem.
If the problem is easy to solve, then go solve it, open a PR, and come back here once you’ve done so.
If you’re going to signal that something needs to be done, and you want people to join you in supporting that belief, then actually put something forward that people can get behind. What would me getting angry alongside you actually accomplish? If there was a PR then the community could go and say “Here is a solution, here’s why we think it’s worth merging” and a discussion could actually be had.
Instead you’re just giving rhetoric about how they don’t want to solve this without any evidence, actually creating a PR and having it rejected would be all the anyone needs to see to support your opinion, so go do it.
They have people like you who will not read actual code to see that they only care about the fact that “Rust is cool programming language” and crashing code doesn’t get any priority.
I’ve have merged PR’s in the Lemmy repos. Don’t assume you know anything about me or my position, because you don’t. I don’t have any particular stance on Rust and if this is actually an issue it’s one I’d like to see resolved, so go open a PR and get the conversation started instead of whinging here.
They even started a new front-end Rust application this month, because they don’t care to bother with the core of the site
Are you referring to this repo that Dessalines forked and hasn’t made a single commit against? That hardly seems like they’re abandoning the current frontend and more like a dev messing around with various tech as we all do.
PostgreSQL doing INSERT and SELECT statements to load comments.
If you know what’s wrong, and you know how to fix it, then either put up or shut up. Go make a PR and fix the problem and show us that they rejected the PR because they’re not interested in improving performance. There’s folks like Phiresky actually making meaningful contributions to the backend to help improve Postgre performance, something both dessalines and nutomic have said they’re not well experts in. Be like Phiresky, actually put your code where your mouth is.
Lastly, I don’t know if you were aware of this, but the Lemmy devs don’t owe you anything. Even less so if you’re not actually contributing code or money to help move this project forward.
If the problem is easy to solve, then go solve it, open a PR, and come back here once you’ve done so.
Why… That isn’t going to get in installed on the servers they are running. I failed to see that this is a “Rock Star” culture, and the audience does not interpret months of Issue 2910 getting no attention as a problem. There are social forces that are non-technical, and I wildly misinterpreted the situation. You personally have really made the case to me just how wrong I am. Again, I am sorry I made such a fuss and misunderstood.
Be like Phiresky, actually put your code where your mouth is.
Why… That isn’t going to get in installed on the servers they are running. I know the change was not difficult for anyone to do. I failed to see that this is a “Rock Star” culture. Look at how you know them by names, and how much you respect that. I just didn’t appreciate the 4 years of style and fashion so fully.
Lastly, I don’t know if you were aware of this, but the Lemmy devs don’t owe you anything.
Such an interesting discussion. Do you believe Reddit owes you something? Do you believe Linux owes you something? Such a interesting topic.
This has nothing to do with rockstar culture and everything to do with the fact that you’re spending 10x the amount of typing complaining about an issue than it would have taken you to just go and fix it and be done with this. So either you don’t want it fixed because you prefer to complain and die on your sword, or you don’t know how to fix it.
Either way I’m done with the conversation. If there is actually an issue I expect someone else who is actually levelheaded and reasonable will identify it and submit a PR. Because that’s how you improve open source software, not by throwing tantrums and making wild assumptions about peoples agendas. Go touch grass or something.
the fact that you’re spending 10x the amount of typing complaining about an issue
I’m no longer complaining, you convinced me, I love them like Rock Stars now and I have formally apologized and explained how wrong I was in my thinking because of my past memories of running mission-critical PostgreSQL servers. Are we clear now? It’s all about Style and Fashion, and I got way too worked up about crashes.
So either you don’t want it fixed because you prefer to complain and die on your sword, or you don’t know how to fix it.
I don’t get this. Why are you making it about me? Do you think I am the one who opened GitHub issue 2910? Is that your accusation? That I created a fake account and opened issue 2910? I was not worried about me. Even in June I was not worried about me personally. I was worried about the person who opened the issue, is that understandable to you?
I was worried about Reddit users encountering server crashes. This isn’t about one person, me. This is about thousands of people and a June 30 deadline.
But 12 hours ago, I have turned direction. I did not realize just the kind of culture and “Rock Star” attitude that was going. I was focused on Reddit June 30, and I didn’t see that the social conventions were far more important than server crashes. It was a mistake for me to be worried so much about data and crashes when that isn’t the culture here. I am finding everything thinks it is “cool” and “fine” that it took over a month for 2910 to be resolved. I never expected that, it was me who was socially out of touch.
I really got lost socially and regret my attitude problem. I should have learned back in March with Elon Musk running Twitter now, that the rules for social media cultures are vastly different than my measures for what would consider to be “cool” regarding a server crash issue. Not one person has said that 2910 should have been addressed within 3 or 4 days of being created. So I know now that it is me who has to change.
If there is actually an issue I expect someone else who is actually levelheaded and reasonable will identify it and submit a PR.
Do you think the issue isn’t fixed or something? This is a postmortem discussion. You seem confused. Or do you think some other confusion, like I’ts about me personally in Issue 2910?
Lemmy’s machine-generated ORM SQL and hand-made flawed PostgreSQL TRIGGER logic is so bad, bloated. The developers on GitHub brag about “high performance”. It’s unbeliable.
In reality, small instances work because it has so many SQL performance problems that it mostly only is stable with little posts and comments in the database. They dd everything they could to avoid using Lemmy itself to discuss !lemmyperformance@lemmy.ml topics and hang out on Matrix Chat to avoid using the constantly-crashing servers they created.
If you go to a server with no users creating comments and posts and only has a tiny amount of data, it does crash a lot less.
You’re rocketderp based on your instability I’m guessing? Looks like your the only one that is nonsensical in that thread. Your PR isn’t a PR. You were rushing to someone that was being helpful but you still acted like a child with your advise of GitHub bugs and PRs and not using them properly. The other person in agreement with you at least is calm and rational. I’m guessing you never worked on a group project before or have had anyone disagree with you. Your commits broke the pipeline. Someone even tried calling you down, but you wouldn’t listen.
You aren’t the victim here. You’re the bully.
Yes. My name is Stephen Alfred Gutknecht. It is clearly detailed here on my profile that I am “RocketDerp” on GitHub.
Issue 2910? The word “nonsense” is being discussed about a Lemmy TRIGGER on June 4, 2023.
You would be guessing wrong. Since late 2019 I am in constant mental anguish and barely surviving. My communications is a constant struggle and I openly disclose this so that it is understood, I am not attempting to cover it up.
The “i’m guessing” game. And I note you can’t actually cite the Github issues by number (2910) or keep details here in fact. A lot of “guessing” going on.
“guessing” again. Should I guess you do not know how difficult or easy it is to remove a TRIGGER in PostgreSQL that is causing server crashes?
Why do you think this is about “me”? I haven’t donated money to the project or had blind faith in the developers.
I’m beyond frustrated that they seem to be going so far out of their way to have servers crash that their motives for doing so need explanation. “Social hazing” is the best answer I can come up with. I’ve now outright asked why they are dong it, because the pattern of behavior with trying to let server crashes has been going on now for months.
I have to admit that it’s amazing the number of people they have attracted with the server crashing. It’s been a social experience in some ways like Elon Musk is doing with Twitter. Perhaps it bothers me when other people actually seem to enjoy it. That seems to be the hiveMind reaction here. In that sense, if it is “social hazing”, it has worked very well.
No.
The feature you suggest be ripped out is one that many people like. I’ve seen people say they hate Mastodon because “Likes” are only counted on the local server and they feel it’s useless. You can’t just suggest rip it out without a fix in its place.
Do we even know the read/write operations of the database are what’s pulling it down when it crashes? Sure it’s not the best code I’ve seen, but on large instances it still manages quite the uptime. Without insight into the cause of the crashes, you can’t honestly say “this, this right here.” Could it help? Probably. Do you need to suggest someone enjoys murdering people because they don’t immediately implement something? Probably not.
Just because you can’t think of another reason why they didn’t listen to you, it doesn’t mean that the one you thought of is correct. That’s not how logic works. It’s narcissistic to believe that you can think of every explanation for something that’s happening.
I didn’t say anything, I was entirely silent, when the June 4 2023 issue 2910 was opened. So I don’t grasp why you think this is all about me. I never thought this was about me. The June 30 Reddit API deadline was what I thought this was all about when I was witnessing this.
I didn’t do pull request and add a new developer in the mix in June because it was such an easy problem to fix. It was when on June 13 that they still had not responded to the June 4 issue 2910 and did hardware upgrades on lemmy.ml that I started to interpret the situation differently. Instead of responding to Issue 2910 on Github, that same day on June 13 I started organizing Lemmy-specific PostgreSQL instructions on !lemmyperformance@lemmy.ml because servers were crashing even after the hardware upgrades.
I now realize, today, that my whole approach to this comes from experience running PostgreSQL in “mission critical” applications. What I have done with DB/2 and PostgreSQL wasn’t driven by social loyalty and “Taking on the Big Guys of Reddit and Twitter” that happens here. I’ve been all wrong to think that the developers don’t know exactly what they are doing. It’s like criticizing Hollywood for spending 3 million dollars on sets and clothes for 90 seconds of a film. I should have realized I was not understanding that social media sites run by social behavior models, not by technology concerns.
Elon Musk has done wild things since he took over Twitter and I didn’t take it so personal. I guess it was my memories and personal experience with PostgreSQL that haunted me too much. I was wrong. And i see how the lemmy community is loyal, so I can see just how wrong I am about the choices being made.
You jumping to politics and weird accusations of folks supporting murder as being the only reason they didn’t fix a postgres bug because, by your own words, you couldn’t think of any other reason.
You clearly have issues communicating and you are admittedly self aware yet you refuse to ever believe maybe those issues are the root of your arguments.
I could list 50 reasons I could think of. Many of which would be even more offensive. I didn’t sit patiently by watching June 4 issue 2910 go ignored because I was trying to over-react. In fact, I couldn’t believe what I was seeing as they upgraded hardware June 13 and continued to ignore the June 4 issue on Github. Even further when June 30 deadline for Reddit API came.
I have been very wrong in how I dealt with it this past 10 days, as I did not come to understand how much the community has come to enjoy the environment of Lemmy. Talking to you has enlightened now just how socially driven the whole platform is and that any training and experiences I have running mission-critical apps with PostgreSQL and DB2 on production servers do not apply here and I should have realized just how wrong my social interpretation of the situation has become.
It’s like watching the recent Nolan film release of Oppenheimer on IMAX. The massive size of the platters and how projectors have run into problems on opening night / first few days of showings. It’s about the style and cool factors, just because Lemmy uses PostgreSQL I considered reliability to be important, but now I clearly see I socially failed to understand how much the community here has come to adore Lemmy history and progression.
Rock Stars being criticized about their style and use of the technology was a huge mistake on my part. It’s all about putting on entertainment people like and the fans of the project are loyal to how it is done. I have been far too slow to recognize the “cool factor” of the Rock Star cultivation happening in front of me. I’m worried about the tire engine maintenance costs on an exotic sports car that draws huge crowds. Sorry I did not grasp that the crowds were so enamored and how that drives the project choices.
Heavy drinking, first time since New Years, reset my brain and I now re-interpret everything I learned about Lemmy history in a new light.
ok, I’ve come to terms. I posed an apology just now on github, and I apologize to you.
I see now that people value the social outcomes of how they run the project far more than I realized.
You’re spamming this all over this thread. Why don’t you go create a PR instead? If you think you have a better solution then go discuss it with the people who have the full context and try to get it fixed instead of complaining here.
It’s amazing how you have fallen hook line and sinker into believing that the problem is difficult to solve. It’s the agenda that is the problem.
They have people like you who will not read actual code to see that they only care about the fact that “Rust is cool programming language” and crashing code doesn’t get any priority.
They even started a new front-end Rust application this month, because they don’t care to bother with the core of the site, PostgreSQL doing INSERT and SELECT statements to load comments.
If the problem is easy to solve, then go solve it, open a PR, and come back here once you’ve done so.
If you’re going to signal that something needs to be done, and you want people to join you in supporting that belief, then actually put something forward that people can get behind. What would me getting angry alongside you actually accomplish? If there was a PR then the community could go and say “Here is a solution, here’s why we think it’s worth merging” and a discussion could actually be had.
Instead you’re just giving rhetoric about how they don’t want to solve this without any evidence, actually creating a PR and having it rejected would be all the anyone needs to see to support your opinion, so go do it.
I’ve have merged PR’s in the Lemmy repos. Don’t assume you know anything about me or my position, because you don’t. I don’t have any particular stance on Rust and if this is actually an issue it’s one I’d like to see resolved, so go open a PR and get the conversation started instead of whinging here.
Are you referring to this repo that Dessalines forked and hasn’t made a single commit against? That hardly seems like they’re abandoning the current frontend and more like a dev messing around with various tech as we all do.
If you know what’s wrong, and you know how to fix it, then either put up or shut up. Go make a PR and fix the problem and show us that they rejected the PR because they’re not interested in improving performance. There’s folks like Phiresky actually making meaningful contributions to the backend to help improve Postgre performance, something both dessalines and nutomic have said they’re not well experts in. Be like Phiresky, actually put your code where your mouth is.
Lastly, I don’t know if you were aware of this, but the Lemmy devs don’t owe you anything. Even less so if you’re not actually contributing code or money to help move this project forward.
Why… That isn’t going to get in installed on the servers they are running. I failed to see that this is a “Rock Star” culture, and the audience does not interpret months of Issue 2910 getting no attention as a problem. There are social forces that are non-technical, and I wildly misinterpreted the situation. You personally have really made the case to me just how wrong I am. Again, I am sorry I made such a fuss and misunderstood.
Why… That isn’t going to get in installed on the servers they are running. I know the change was not difficult for anyone to do. I failed to see that this is a “Rock Star” culture. Look at how you know them by names, and how much you respect that. I just didn’t appreciate the 4 years of style and fashion so fully.
Such an interesting discussion. Do you believe Reddit owes you something? Do you believe Linux owes you something? Such a interesting topic.
This has nothing to do with rockstar culture and everything to do with the fact that you’re spending 10x the amount of typing complaining about an issue than it would have taken you to just go and fix it and be done with this. So either you don’t want it fixed because you prefer to complain and die on your sword, or you don’t know how to fix it.
Either way I’m done with the conversation. If there is actually an issue I expect someone else who is actually levelheaded and reasonable will identify it and submit a PR. Because that’s how you improve open source software, not by throwing tantrums and making wild assumptions about peoples agendas. Go touch grass or something.
Then I’m confused, because that was my own idea.
I’m no longer complaining, you convinced me, I love them like Rock Stars now and I have formally apologized and explained how wrong I was in my thinking because of my past memories of running mission-critical PostgreSQL servers. Are we clear now? It’s all about Style and Fashion, and I got way too worked up about crashes.
I don’t get this. Why are you making it about me? Do you think I am the one who opened GitHub issue 2910? Is that your accusation? That I created a fake account and opened issue 2910? I was not worried about me. Even in June I was not worried about me personally. I was worried about the person who opened the issue, is that understandable to you?
I was worried about Reddit users encountering server crashes. This isn’t about one person, me. This is about thousands of people and a June 30 deadline.
But 12 hours ago, I have turned direction. I did not realize just the kind of culture and “Rock Star” attitude that was going. I was focused on Reddit June 30, and I didn’t see that the social conventions were far more important than server crashes. It was a mistake for me to be worried so much about data and crashes when that isn’t the culture here. I am finding everything thinks it is “cool” and “fine” that it took over a month for 2910 to be resolved. I never expected that, it was me who was socially out of touch.
I really got lost socially and regret my attitude problem. I should have learned back in March with Elon Musk running Twitter now, that the rules for social media cultures are vastly different than my measures for what would consider to be “cool” regarding a server crash issue. Not one person has said that 2910 should have been addressed within 3 or 4 days of being created. So I know now that it is me who has to change.
Do you think the issue isn’t fixed or something? This is a postmortem discussion. You seem confused. Or do you think some other confusion, like I’ts about me personally in Issue 2910?
That’s an interesting community.