Ah, sounds like what-about-ism. Metas behavior doesn’t exempt Apple from criticism. That logic tends to drive all of our standards and expectations down.
Theres room to criticize and expect more from all of these companies who are more than capable of doing better.
I have to disagree when it comes to laptops: the gap has closed a bit now, but there’s still no intel- or amd-based alternative that comes close to the MacBook air in terms of performance/battery life at the £1000-£1200 price point. When the M1s first came out, the fanless MacBook air shattered the intel i9 MBP in any conceivable metric other than pure GPU power (which the MacBook Pro could use for about a minute before overheating).
Even if expensive, the current MacBook lineup is really compelling. If you’re prepared to spend £3000 on a laptop, you just can’t get anything similar in terms of performance, battery life, and noise. You might get a workstation like an HP ZBook with similar oomph but then you’re looking at a beast that weighs 50% more than a comparable MBP, has the fans buzzing all the time at full blast, and lasts a couple hours on a battery charge. I’ve used my work MacBook Pro (M1 Max) for a full Atlantic flight of ≈9 hours and it still had juice to go.
MacBooks in that price range fall apart frequently due to only having 8GB of RAM. They’re e-waste.
You’ve got to spend ~£500 more to get one with alright specs. And even for that £1,650 price point you only get 512GB storage (are you fucking serious, Apple? A £500 Acer has that amount!)
And please don’t regurgitate Apple’s “our RAM is magic RAM so you don’t need much of it” nonsense.
I have no idea what you’re on about. MacBook airs start at £999, and I’ve still been able to configure one at £1199 with 16 GB of RAM.
Also I haven’t said anything about that magic ram nonsense, please don’t try to paint me as an idiot. Even my personal laptop has 32 GB. But different needs, different price points. I still maintain that at the price points apple operates, it’s hard to find something better with windows - not because I’m an apple fanboy by any means, but because of the laziness of Intel and the lack of decent ARM alternatives (and Microsoft’s half assed approach to ARM).
I was talking about the current generation, not a 3 year old model. Similarly if I was talking about iPhone pricing, I’d bring up the iPhone 15, not 12.
You need to add ram to at least 16GB, and storage to at least 512GB, otherwise not only do you have a pathetic amount of storage, but your storage speeds are crippled (which apple unfortunately tries of obfuscate).
That takes the price up to £1,650. £500 more than the base price.
And I didn’t say you said anything about magic RAM. I said please don’t regurgitate it in response. I see it a lot. 8GB of RAM is straight up e-waste.
I can’t believe Apple wasn’t sued over their “our RAM is… like… magic, bruh” statements
I really poked the bear on this one, this is more a reply to both of you:
Even if they were on par with other manufacturers, apples staunch position on never admitting security vulnerabilities or attempting to rectify them will steer me away every single time.
At the same time, I hate Apple the least of big tech, since they actually do give a crap about building good products and have done quite a bit of that.
That’s an incredibly low bar. There are exceptions of course but I’d argue there really is no need to use “big tech” software much of the time. Smartphones are probably the most challenging, but desktops and laptops? Easy to avoid.
It’s a word, with a formal dictionary definition: “the technique or practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counter-accusation or raising a different issue”.
I’m wondering what they are. The Newton was kind of cool, but before it’s time. mp3 players had been out for years before Apple jumped on the bandwagon. Same with phones. I hope this doesn’t come across as snarky “fuck apple”, I’m genuinely curious.
They don’t create new product categories. What they do is enter an existing category, do it the Apple Way, which is generally high-quality and integrated well into their ecosystem, and thus they become the default in people’s minds.
They’ve almost never done anything new, but they integrate existing technologies better than almost every other company.
The iPod was so derivative of the creative labs mp3 player that Apple ultimately had to pay them $100 million.
The Lisa and later the Macintosh copied from xerox. Something that everyone was doing around then. Amiga and Atari ST both had guis. Hell even the commodore 64 had Geos. The Mac didn’t even get color until 1987.
Handspring had a smart phone, complete with touch screen and apps, years before the iPhone.
Mac os didn’t have proper multitasking until version 7.5, years after Windows had it.
You’re making up a lot of stuff, Xerox had a gui UI for a whole decade before apple and they certainly weren’t the only ones.
The MP3 player they made was literally just a feature limited version of already popular devices. I got my arcos a year before the first apple device was released and it had every single feature that apple would slowly add in every new expensive version over the next decade
Apple does hype and marketing, that’s their innovation - taking a feature restricted version of a technology and getting celebrities and media idiots to pretend it’s the best thing in the world and actively ignore or discount the many better options.
Hey man, pick one. Are we supposed to debunk your comment point by point, like you demanded of me. Or is it wasting minutes to destroy your corporate dribble. Make up your mind.
Here’s a new fallacy for you baby, this one doesn’t have big words so it is easier to remember: “moving the goalpost”.
They existed before iPod, they just didnt get the marketing blitz Apple did. Cowon comes to mind, and had much better quality audio.
I did some research on this, because I was a big fan of MP3 players in the late 90s early 2000s and never heard of them. Turns out that the only Cowon Mp3 player I could find from around the iPod launch was the iAudio CW200, which had a capacity of 256MB.
This explains why I had never heard of it, as I was shopping for HDD-based players that could hold my entire library(I was looking at PJB, Nomad, Archos, etc).
Sorry but this illustrates OP’s point. The iPod was the smallest HDD-based player on the market for years, all the other HDD players were chunky and could barely fit in a pocket. All the flash-based players had pitiful capacity. It wasn’t that there were no MP3 players, it was that all the products had compromises that made them not ready for mass adoption.
While OP is overstating some things, your counter examples are rife with oversights like this.
As an example you are badmouthing Apple’s “low resolution displays”, while missing the fact that the MacBook Pro was the first ever mass market high dpi laptop. Ironically Samsung had produced a limited production laptop with a similar screen, but because Samsung lacks focus and had 1000 different laptop SKUs, they didn’t make it a premiere feature of their brand, instead Apple simply bought out Samsung’s entire manufacturing capacity for years and put them in their laptops.
This is the pattern. There are interesting technologies, but they are in products with mediocre design or appeal, and are not mass produced. Apple identifies these technologies, optimizes them, integrates them, ensures that there is a good user experience, makes a million of them, makes a billion on that, then changes the entire landscape of the market they entered by virtue of their success.
Everything, all of that existed way before Apple. Just because you are ignorant of history doesn’t make your point right. Apple got all of their ideas from interacting with other companies in private, then stealing their ideas. Jobs was no longer invited to certain demos because of that kind of shenanigans. And oh god, OSX is NOT build directly from UNIX. It’s BSD which they scrapped from the NeXT computer. Everything you are spouting is just wrong. Apple is just good at marketing to chumps who care more about status and looks than usability, and who just buy into the cult mentality and lap all of Apple’s bullshit without rubbing two neurons together long enough to notice they are being scalped with overpriced crap.
Yeah, the circlejerking and dog piling from people who have no idea what they are talking about is actually far worse here than it was at Reddit - but just know, we aren’t all as misinformed as these people. You’re absolutely correct.
Which they charge x4 the value, and always underdeveloped one or two key features in order to scalp further inordinate amounts of money from their users to overcome the underperforming feature they neutered intentionally. Anyone buying from Apple is a chump getting taken advantage of and somehow is convinced to be proud of being abused by a corp.
They do sell good products… Kinda. But they are professional scalpers and scammers. iPhones get their performance nerfed via software after a few years to force you to upgrade. They charge Quadruple price for ram upgrades in their laptops. Now they’re removing, not dropping support, but actively removing a feature that they themselves do not have to develop to stop you installing a feature on a device that you pay for.
Apple do not make superior products, apart from the iPad that’s a genuinely superior product. They sell a walled garden that you have to pay continuous subscriptions to stay in. The subscription in this sense is their app store.
Yeah seriously. This community hates Apple so much, but so many people here know nothing about their hardware or software. It’s really bizarre. I’m a Windows/Linux user, but I’ve got an iPhone because it’s the absolute best for longevity and privacy if you want a device where you don’t have to fuck about. I’m on my computers all day, I don’t want to have to think about my phone at all.
That makes it illegal. The DMA explicitly requires gatekeepers be “proactive” (that’s their words) towards opening up their platform. Removing features just in the EU is the opposite of that.
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Ah, sounds like what-about-ism. Metas behavior doesn’t exempt Apple from criticism. That logic tends to drive all of our standards and expectations down.
Theres room to criticize and expect more from all of these companies who are more than capable of doing better.
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Apple builds marketing, not good products. There was a time they were innovative, and it is not now. Their price/performance ratio is laughable.
I have to disagree when it comes to laptops: the gap has closed a bit now, but there’s still no intel- or amd-based alternative that comes close to the MacBook air in terms of performance/battery life at the £1000-£1200 price point. When the M1s first came out, the fanless MacBook air shattered the intel i9 MBP in any conceivable metric other than pure GPU power (which the MacBook Pro could use for about a minute before overheating).
Even if expensive, the current MacBook lineup is really compelling. If you’re prepared to spend £3000 on a laptop, you just can’t get anything similar in terms of performance, battery life, and noise. You might get a workstation like an HP ZBook with similar oomph but then you’re looking at a beast that weighs 50% more than a comparable MBP, has the fans buzzing all the time at full blast, and lasts a couple hours on a battery charge. I’ve used my work MacBook Pro (M1 Max) for a full Atlantic flight of ≈9 hours and it still had juice to go.
They start at £1,150
MacBooks in that price range fall apart frequently due to only having 8GB of RAM. They’re e-waste.
You’ve got to spend ~£500 more to get one with alright specs. And even for that £1,650 price point you only get 512GB storage (are you fucking serious, Apple? A £500 Acer has that amount!)
And please don’t regurgitate Apple’s “our RAM is magic RAM so you don’t need much of it” nonsense.
I have no idea what you’re on about. MacBook airs start at £999, and I’ve still been able to configure one at £1199 with 16 GB of RAM.
Also I haven’t said anything about that magic ram nonsense, please don’t try to paint me as an idiot. Even my personal laptop has 32 GB. But different needs, different price points. I still maintain that at the price points apple operates, it’s hard to find something better with windows - not because I’m an apple fanboy by any means, but because of the laziness of Intel and the lack of decent ARM alternatives (and Microsoft’s half assed approach to ARM).
I was talking about the current generation, not a 3 year old model. Similarly if I was talking about iPhone pricing, I’d bring up the iPhone 15, not 12.
You need to add ram to at least 16GB, and storage to at least 512GB, otherwise not only do you have a pathetic amount of storage, but your storage speeds are crippled (which apple unfortunately tries of obfuscate).
That takes the price up to £1,650. £500 more than the base price.
And I didn’t say you said anything about magic RAM. I said please don’t regurgitate it in response. I see it a lot. 8GB of RAM is straight up e-waste.
I can’t believe Apple wasn’t sued over their “our RAM is… like… magic, bruh” statements
I really poked the bear on this one, this is more a reply to both of you:
Even if they were on par with other manufacturers, apples staunch position on never admitting security vulnerabilities or attempting to rectify them will steer me away every single time.
That’s an incredibly low bar. There are exceptions of course but I’d argue there really is no need to use “big tech” software much of the time. Smartphones are probably the most challenging, but desktops and laptops? Easy to avoid.
It’s a word, with a formal dictionary definition: “the technique or practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counter-accusation or raising a different issue”.
It has it’s origins in politics.
That hasn’t been true for quite a few years.
I’m wondering what they are. The Newton was kind of cool, but before it’s time. mp3 players had been out for years before Apple jumped on the bandwagon. Same with phones. I hope this doesn’t come across as snarky “fuck apple”, I’m genuinely curious.
They don’t create new product categories. What they do is enter an existing category, do it the Apple Way, which is generally high-quality and integrated well into their ecosystem, and thus they become the default in people’s minds.
They’ve almost never done anything new, but they integrate existing technologies better than almost every other company.
“Finding the application is half the innovation”
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The iPod was so derivative of the creative labs mp3 player that Apple ultimately had to pay them $100 million.
The Lisa and later the Macintosh copied from xerox. Something that everyone was doing around then. Amiga and Atari ST both had guis. Hell even the commodore 64 had Geos. The Mac didn’t even get color until 1987.
Handspring had a smart phone, complete with touch screen and apps, years before the iPhone.
Mac os didn’t have proper multitasking until version 7.5, years after Windows had it.
Onkyo created the first true wireless earbuds.
You’re making up a lot of stuff, Xerox had a gui UI for a whole decade before apple and they certainly weren’t the only ones.
The MP3 player they made was literally just a feature limited version of already popular devices. I got my arcos a year before the first apple device was released and it had every single feature that apple would slowly add in every new expensive version over the next decade
Apple does hype and marketing, that’s their innovation - taking a feature restricted version of a technology and getting celebrities and media idiots to pretend it’s the best thing in the world and actively ignore or discount the many better options.
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Hey man, pick one. Are we supposed to debunk your comment point by point, like you demanded of me. Or is it wasting minutes to destroy your corporate dribble. Make up your mind.
Here’s a new fallacy for you baby, this one doesn’t have big words so it is easier to remember: “moving the goalpost”.
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I did some research on this, because I was a big fan of MP3 players in the late 90s early 2000s and never heard of them. Turns out that the only Cowon Mp3 player I could find from around the iPod launch was the iAudio CW200, which had a capacity of 256MB.
This explains why I had never heard of it, as I was shopping for HDD-based players that could hold my entire library(I was looking at PJB, Nomad, Archos, etc).
Sorry but this illustrates OP’s point. The iPod was the smallest HDD-based player on the market for years, all the other HDD players were chunky and could barely fit in a pocket. All the flash-based players had pitiful capacity. It wasn’t that there were no MP3 players, it was that all the products had compromises that made them not ready for mass adoption.
While OP is overstating some things, your counter examples are rife with oversights like this.
As an example you are badmouthing Apple’s “low resolution displays”, while missing the fact that the MacBook Pro was the first ever mass market high dpi laptop. Ironically Samsung had produced a limited production laptop with a similar screen, but because Samsung lacks focus and had 1000 different laptop SKUs, they didn’t make it a premiere feature of their brand, instead Apple simply bought out Samsung’s entire manufacturing capacity for years and put them in their laptops.
This is the pattern. There are interesting technologies, but they are in products with mediocre design or appeal, and are not mass produced. Apple identifies these technologies, optimizes them, integrates them, ensures that there is a good user experience, makes a million of them, makes a billion on that, then changes the entire landscape of the market they entered by virtue of their success.
Everyone says I’m dumb when I simp for a shitty corporation that exists on hype alone
It must be because I’m so superior to every tech community on the web and they’re circlejetking
Lol
Everything, all of that existed way before Apple. Just because you are ignorant of history doesn’t make your point right. Apple got all of their ideas from interacting with other companies in private, then stealing their ideas. Jobs was no longer invited to certain demos because of that kind of shenanigans. And oh god, OSX is NOT build directly from UNIX. It’s BSD which they scrapped from the NeXT computer. Everything you are spouting is just wrong. Apple is just good at marketing to chumps who care more about status and looks than usability, and who just buy into the cult mentality and lap all of Apple’s bullshit without rubbing two neurons together long enough to notice they are being scalped with overpriced crap.
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Good boy, you learned ad-hominem. Now, tell me which other big words you know?
Yeah, the circlejerking and dog piling from people who have no idea what they are talking about is actually far worse here than it was at Reddit - but just know, we aren’t all as misinformed as these people. You’re absolutely correct.
[chasing goose meme]
Like what?
LIKE WHAT MOTHERFUCKER!?
Rounded corners I guess.
Which they charge x4 the value, and always underdeveloped one or two key features in order to scalp further inordinate amounts of money from their users to overcome the underperforming feature they neutered intentionally. Anyone buying from Apple is a chump getting taken advantage of and somehow is convinced to be proud of being abused by a corp.
They do sell good products… Kinda. But they are professional scalpers and scammers. iPhones get their performance nerfed via software after a few years to force you to upgrade. They charge Quadruple price for ram upgrades in their laptops. Now they’re removing, not dropping support, but actively removing a feature that they themselves do not have to develop to stop you installing a feature on a device that you pay for.
Apple do not make superior products, apart from the iPad that’s a genuinely superior product. They sell a walled garden that you have to pay continuous subscriptions to stay in. The subscription in this sense is their app store.
My five year old iPhone runs like it did when I first got it, and I’ve never formatted it.
My dads iPhone 8 is finally starting to lose some of its battery life. But it’s overall performance is totally fine.
I think a lot of people forget that most humans doesn’t need 100000000000gb of ram and 20trillion gbs of storage.
I’m using 65gb of storage, including the os… on my baseline 128gb model.
Most people aren’t editing 8k videos on their iPhones lol. They’re sending a text message.
Yeah seriously. This community hates Apple so much, but so many people here know nothing about their hardware or software. It’s really bizarre. I’m a Windows/Linux user, but I’ve got an iPhone because it’s the absolute best for longevity and privacy if you want a device where you don’t have to fuck about. I’m on my computers all day, I don’t want to have to think about my phone at all.
That makes it illegal. The DMA explicitly requires gatekeepers be “proactive” (that’s their words) towards opening up their platform. Removing features just in the EU is the opposite of that.
Besides iPod and iPhone. What product category did Apple create that wasn’t there already?
Imo Apple rolls good solutions, but they very rarely actually innovate.
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Whataboutism much?