You are welcome not to I guess. It wouldn’t be cope though if you directed 3 out of 4 of those at me.

Let’s start with the boldest claim first — it’s that AI is not just in a bubble, but one 17 times the size of the dot-com bubble, and even four times bigger than the 2008 global real-estate bubble.

source

Resisting tyranny is how everything good in the world is possible. The way to have lives worth living is to defeat tyrants and their ideologies. We defeated the Nazis but not fascism. Now we have to defeat the ideological descendants of the Nazis.

If we don’t defeat fascism, neoliberalism, and capitalism now the turn around time for the next fascist movement will be measured in years not decades. We have seen as much with the Biden administration. They failed to meaningfully hold Trump and MAGA to account for the insurrection or fundamentally fix the underling systemic issues that they are symptoms of and now we are living under fascist rule.

We don’t have dignified lives or liberal democracies to go back to. The way to get something better is with socialist democracies where workers own corporations and the political process. Until then it’s liberty or death. We benefited from a free democracy. If anyone is to enjoy that again we must resist now and until we are all free.

1973 Chilean coup d’état

I assume you mean 1973.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/50CTJnPn0RC2tXg18zfcXxy/the-scots-who-stopped-air-strikes-by-a-violent-chilean-dictator

By flying a plane into the capitol you mean using military planes to fire rockets at the La Moneda Palace.

▪️🚿👩‍🚒🚒

I am a Jew. Free Palestine!

Exactly, they should! What they’re doing instead is using violence on people outside their in-group.

The fascists are trying to kill people. In response your argument proposes what is best described as a kind of Stockholm syndrome. But instead of a empathy for captors your argument would have victims have empathy for their murderers. Like some kind of extreme form of rape culture. It’s disgusting in my opinion.

Neither are the people celebrating here, according to this logic. See the issue?

Those tolerant people are feeling empathy for each other regardless of their group. They are even expressing empathy for Charlie Kirk’s children. So they are following the social contract where as the fascists are not.

Apparently they are not, as exemplified by celebration of violence here.

Those who break the peace treaty are not protected by it. The fascists broke the peace treaty so the fascists are not protected by it.

They feel empathy for the intolerant

The users in this thread are still tolerant of each other, regardless of group. So the empathy they feel towards each other is for tolerant people of different groups.

, and dislike the emphatic.

Fascists want to kill out groups. Fascists are practicing parochial empathy if even that. Your argument seems to have no grasp of what empathy is or how to practice it in a healthy or useful way so it is not compelling. edit: typo

You see the issue with this parochial approach to empathy?

Tolerant people in groups whether that is by race, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, or gender are still feeling empathy for tolerant people outside their groups. So people practicing tolerance as a peace treaty are still practicing empathy not parochial empathy.

Do you see the problem with using a straw man to argue? Refuting your argument is trivial.

That’s what most here are doing.

Considering this acts in accordance with self-preservation this is a rational and useful decision to have made.

Should everyone in this group who celebrates breaking of the social contract be fair game for reprisal?

Charlie Kirk and the other fascists he was a mouth piece for have already broken the social contract with their fascist takeover of the United States. This fascists administration goal is to around up minority groups into death camps and a pollute the planet as much as possible with coal powered ‘freedom cities’. The fascist chose to break the peace treaty and so they are no longer protected by it.

The intolerant group has already decided those being tolerant are fair game before this. The fascists already wanted to kill people. We knew this before the election. They were completely open with what they wanted to do. Now tolerant people have to work together with people outside their groups to defend themselves against intolerant fascists. This is a clear cut example of real empathy.

You are describing parochial empathy, with the caveat that somehow you think it’s different when you do it.

No parochial empathy is when an in-group only has empathy for the in-group and none for any out-groups.

The resolution to the paradox of tolerance does not require individuals in a group to only experience empathy for other individuals in their group.

Instead members of groups that adhere to the social contract or peace treaty of tolerance all feel empathy for each other.

Only when an individual, individuals, or a group of people break the social contract or peace treaty are they no longer protected by it. Every individual in the groups still being tolerant still feel empathy for each other across group lines.

This is so the groups that practice tolerance can defend themselves from a group that has chosen to be intolerant. Such as the Nazis killing minority groups in WWII.

But if you agree that Hamas is despicable, why not call for it to surrender?

Hamas should turn themselves over the ICJ, they won’t, but this would not stop Israel.

Why can’t you say war criminals should turn themselves over to the ICJ?

You don’t think it would stop Israel, but it could

The actions of one group of people have no bearing over the actions of another group of people. Hamas does not control Israel. Hamas is not making Israel kill civilians. Israel can stop killing civilians whenever they want.

Because you don’t want Israel to ‘win’?

What is Israel winning here? Global isolation? Crimes against humanity? Increasing antisemitism?

The chance of saving children isn’t worth that much to you?

No, killing children isn’t worth making the world a worse place for all of us.

They would have to, and they would.

This is an appeal to common decency fallacy. No one is forced to do something because it is decent. Israel is proof of that with it’s indecent attacks on civilians. The evidence we have indicates Israel’s governments wants to be at war to maintain its grip on power. They are actively ignoring a proposal that is effectively equivalent to one they already agreed to previously.

My suspicion is that Israel only agreed thinking Hamas would not. Now that Hamas has agreed to it Israel is in an awkward spot. And no doubt Israel would be even more mask off if Hamas blatantly surrendered.

so angry and attacking of Israel.

Because your argument is a collection of fallacies and genocide apologia. And it’s not the first time it’s been trotted out. Hamas isn’t the organization bombing Gaza right now. And sure Hamas definitely wanted this to happen, but that doesn’t excuse Israel’s disregard of international law and human decency.

You react vehemently against the notion that Hamas should surrender

The idea that Israel would cease attacking civilians if Hamas surrendered is false based on the evidence of a genocide being live streamed to our phones. For Israel, the genocide is the goal. Netanyahu wants to form a greater Israel and deny Palestinian statehood.

There is no justification for attacking civilians. Calling Palestinians human shields is not a valid legal or moral argument, it is a dehumanization tactic. The fact that Israel is at war with Hamas doesn’t matter. If Israel would follow international law this would end today. If Israel would acknowledge their shared humanity with the Palestinians this would end today.

Israel is the one bombing civilians. If Israel would stop bombing civilians this would end today. edit: typos

If the Israelis who fought in the 1948 Arab-Israeli War were 18 in 1948 that would make them 77 years older or 95 years old. This is like Israel hunting down the Nazis on their death bed. At some point most of these people died of old age. It’s going to be the odd centenarian who faces justice in 2030.

I am not a Nazi or a Zionist. I do not seek the total extermination of groups of people. This has no appeal to me. Put whoever in jail or prison that deserves it but you will likely be transferring them to a hospital and then a morgue shortly after.

Here is the current list of centenarians now as an example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_living_centenarians

Searching by Israeli I get seven matches:

• Dutch-Israeli | Holocaust survivor[11]
• Israeli | Air Force major general[68]
• German-born British-Israeli | Journalist, actor, businessman and Holocaust survivor[180]
• Israeli | Military official and expert[222]
• Ukrainian-Israeli | Olympic fencer[262]
• Israeli | Nuclear physicist[277]
• Polish-born Israeli | War veteran[306]

Unless you speak some of these languages I recommend the language translator option that should appear in the top right of your browser’s search bar.

Are we arresting the Polish guy who fought in the Warsaw Uprising of 1944 against the Nazis? He also fought in the 1948 Arab-Israeli War against Arabs.

https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-853294

Looks like the Major General and the Air Force Commander would fit squarely into the kind of people you would want in the Hauge.

There’s also the Dutch-Israeli woman who is a holocaust survivor to consider.

https://nos.nl/artikel/2538252-107-jarige-holocaustoverlevende-krijgt-amsterdamse-andreaspenning

And the British-Israeli holocaust survivor who rescued soldiers from the Battle of Normandy and is the oldest active journalist. But his quote about October 7th, published on January 7th, 2024 hasn’t aged well.

“I’ve always felt a deep connection to the Jewish people and our homeland. I value the moments I’ve spent fighting against tyranny and promoting the truth through journalism. I could never have imagined that at the age of 100 I would be a witness to the horrific pogrom against Jews that took place on October 7 and the terrifying resurgence of antisemitism since. As I celebrate today, I also pray for the future of the State of Israel and the Jewish people.”

Probably seemed like a reasonable statement a few months after October 7th.

https://www.jwire.com.au/walter-bingham-kindertransport-survivor-celebrates-100th-birthday/

There is the Ukrainian Israeli Olympic fencer

A man who survived the Battle of Stalingrad and the Chernobyl disaster.

Источник: https://www.sovsport.ru/chronicles/articles/segodnya-istoricheskij-den-starejshemu-otechestvennomu-olimpijczu-100-let

(The site can copy the link when you paste a quote. Cool.)

And here’s a softball, the Israeli nuclear physicist was in the Palmach. Easy Hague material.

Those are the seven who are 100 or older now. Is this something people are seriously interested engaging in for people younger than that who would now be in their nineties? Or does this context not even matter and people want these people in prison regardless? And is prison good enough or do people want blood? Punishing these people in any capacity won’t undermine Zionism. There is no utility in such an endeavor if the goal is defeating Zionism, an ideology.

Also, since I identified seven Jewish centenarians which comes off as a sus thing to do and some people like saying things that start off with ‘If you were a Jew’, I’m a Russian-Jewish American and undoubtedly a mix of European ethnic groups as I am pasty white, but not an Israeli. edit: typo

Israel as a zionist Jewish ethno-state must be replaced with a multi-ethnic pluralistic state. Part of accomplishing that requires Netanyahu’s governing coalition collapse. A great way to accomplish that would be to send Israel’s government to the Hague.

‘Do you condemn Hamas?’ is a meme at this point. No one is taking that far-right talking point seriously.

Your argument is using a motte-and-bailey fallacy. It begins by solely blaming Hamas for the continuation of the war for not surrendering when it is quite clear that Israel has no intention of accepting such a surrender. Israel is actively ignoring a ceasefire proposal they previously agreed to right now.

Then when pressed your argument retreats to asserting most people refuse to put partial blame on Hamas. I condemn Hamas. A majority of people on here do. No one is interested in wasting their time saying that. ‘Do you condemn Hamas’ has been done quite a bit at this point. There’s nothing weird about not taking your genocide apologia seriously.

Yes, because Israel is explicitly a settler colonial project. They could keep attacking Gaza like they keep attacking Syria despite Syria not doing anything hostile to them. Israel is there to take land while killing and displacing the current inhabitants.

US support for Israel is not derived from popular support, but by the profits of the military industrial complex. As long the conflict is profitable it will continue.

Netanyahu’s has explicitly stated it is the goal of his generation to deny Palestinian statehood.

Hamas should turn themselves over the ICJ, they won’t, but this would not stop Israel. Right-wing groups want their opposing counterparts to exist so they have an excuse to commit more atrocities later. Hamas wants nothing more for everyone in Gaza to die so they can have two million martyrs. Israel’s far right government wanted a pretext to carry out this genocide. It’s undoubtedly part of why Netanyahu help found Hamas. Which has been known publicly since 2019. edit: typo

https://newrepublic.com/article/176962/hamas-finances-funding-sources-palestinian-authority

For fascists, the constant state of conflict is the goal. In Netanyahu’s case this is doubly true, because he could end up in prison if his government collapses.

Bots could be used to spam LLM comments, but users can effectively act as a manual bot with a LLM assisting them.

There really is no LLM detector yet.

Unless the prompter goes out of their way to obfuscate the text manually, which sort of defeats the purpose, they tend to be very samey. The generated text would stand out if multiple users were using the same or even similar prompts. And OPs stands out even without the admission.

edit: to clarify I mean stand out to the human eye, human mods would have to be the ones removing the comments

The issue is the scale. One comment can be fact checked in under an hour. Thousands not so much.

Also, it’s not purely about accuracy. I want to be having discussions with other humans. Not software.

Thanks for bringing this up to the group, I appreciate it! edit: typo

I’ve got three arguments for you on why you should make a rule against LLM comments, even those publicly marked as AI. And I’m going to refer to AI as LLM because large language models are what we are dealing with here.

First, LLMs aren’t a reliable source of information, especially for recent events. They regurgitate training data based on weights calibrated during training. These weights are used to create results that, especially for numbers, can look accurate for the topic but still be the wrong number. For recent events, they will lack the relevant data because it won’t have been in the data set they were trained on. So until that data is added in, the LLMs are giving an answer to something they don’t know, for lack of a better phrasing. These are commonly known limitations of the LLMs we are discussing.

If people start using LLMs to argue then the comments sections are going to be filled with pages of made up LLM garbage. LLMs will generate more misinformation than anyone can keep up with to debunk. Especially when misinformation could do the most damage like in the weeks leading up to the special election this November 4th in California.

I find it unlikely that all of the statistics listed, without sources, by the LLM are accurate. But regardless of that, if a user was to respond by taking that comment and putting it in a LLM it’s not likely that the LLM would be able to keep those numbers consistent. These errors would compound the longer the discussion went on between two LLMs.

At best this all wastes peoples’ time and lemmy becomes an extension of the misinformation LLM machine. At worst this becomes an attack vector for bad actors. Bad actors fill up comment sections with LLM discussions that promote one view point and bury the rest. Knowing the comments are LLM generated doesn’t solve these problems on its own.

Second, we shouldn’t want to automate thinking. Tools are supposed to save time while retaining agency. My laptop saves me the time of having to send you a letter in the mail and having to wait for the response. My laptop doesn’t deny me agency when it does this. I get to decide what I value and how that is communicated to you. The LLM saved OP’s time, if all OP wanted was text that looks correct at a glance, but it removed OP’s agency to think.

Facts and data, purportedly accurate, are assembled into a structure to deliver a central point, but none of that is done with the agency of OP. It’s not the OP’s thoughts or values being delivered to any of us. It’s not even a position held for the sake of a debate. This is the LLM regurgitating the position it received in the prompt in the affirmative, because that’s what the LLMs we have access to do. Like shouting into a cave and getting the echo back out.

We aren’t getting what we want faster with LLM content, we are being denied it. The LLM takes away our ability to have a discussion with each other. Anyone using an LLM to think for them is by definition not participating in the discussion. No one can have a conversation, argument, or debate with this OP because despite OP having commented OP didn’t write it. For lack of a better analogy, I might as well have a discussion with a parrot.

What are we doing on this website if we are all going to roll out our LLMs and have them talk to each other for us? We can all open two windows, position them side by side, and copy and paste prompts back and forth without needing a decentralized social media website as the middle man. The goal of social media and lemmy is to talk to other people.

Third, do you really want to volunteer to moderate LLM content? ChatGPT prose gets repetitive and it can never come up with anything new. I would not want to be stuck reading that all day.