The consequences were way better than the let 'er rip nations. If China had a death toll equivalent to the United States, they’d have 5 million dead. Even the “China is lying” people are talking about hundreds of thousands, or possibly a million, not 5 million.
Staying COVID-zero until better treatments and vaccines are available actually does save lives.
The account you’re explaining is a sterling example of why defederating from Hexbear is a good idea. I’d forgotten what Chapo trolling was like, but it’s very much this. Just sort of immature vaguely-confusing “ironic” trolling over and over again. They’re fishing for a ban and will no doubt go celebrate it somewhere else when they get it, but until they get it they’ll just make comment sections dumber.
I don’t even remember what Reddit’s statement was, so trust in them doesn’t enter into it. I simply don’t see any reason to trust convenient narratives from CTH mods. It’s far too cute a narrative from a source that absolutely would make something up for the lulz alone, let alone a story that also casts them as righteous heroes against cartoonishly stupid evil.
The userbase of CTH and other socialist subreddits only have that same narrative to repeat. Saying “they all heard it too” means nothing.
It’s never going to be literally 100% of users on an instance. It’s more of a balancing act of “is the communication with this instance a net positive for our users”. It takes a good amount of unmoderated toxicity to balance out the benefit of just regular old communication, but it doesn’t need to be literally everyone all the time.
The user didn’t ask about being banned for breaking rules, they asked about being banned for “being an asshat”.
That’s also very fair. Federation only works if the interchange of users doesn’t degrade the communities in each instance. If it’s just a bunch of safe home bases that can go out and be assholes as long as it’s somewhere else the whole thing falls apart.
If the reason for the ban is explicitly (as presented by the user) “being an asshat”, then yes, the source instance should consider banning them as well. Defederation is exactly the expectation (from Carcosa in their post) if too many users from an instance go elsewhere to be asshats.
Do we have anything but the CTH mod’s word on that being the cause? Because it’s a pretty transparently dumb reason while most of reddit knew them for trolling and brigading.
Non-federation with a CTH-successor certainly makes running a community on lemmy.world more desirable. Back on reddit, before the bannings about 1/3 of mod actions were from TD users, 1/3 were from CTH users, and the last 1/3 was just randos. It’s not like CTH was just a regular sub, they were the source of a lot of moderation.
I think lemmy.world’s admins should absolutely ban their users who go to other instances to troll, and they should be criticized for not doing that. Instances should 100% be held to account for not reigning in users who intentionally go to other instances to be disruptive.
I read the statement that was linked here, and it just seemed like they were saying that they should be respectful and follow our rules?
Read through some of the first set of links if you haven’t. The same admin who’s trying to gently suggest they don’t troll is talking about how their instance won’t brigade lemmygrad because the energy is better focused on the wider war against liberalism in the fediverse. It calls into question exactly how real that suggestion is vs. just a pro-forma attempt to head off this exact result with a toothless suggestion they know no one is going to follow.
I didn’t abandon it. If they wait and see and hexbear’s users do keep the dirtbag shit to local, then they should. I just won’t really care that much if they don’t.
Do you really believe that will stop their users from trolling? They explicitly say that they won’t impose consequences for actions on other instances, so it’s basically just a friendly suggestion. Add to it their statement’s elsewhere implying there will be non-lemmygrad brigading and it’s kind of hard to believe they really care all that much about their users not trolling “the libs”.
Carcosa (i.e., the same person who said follow the rules on other instances):
So lets say hypothetically I get banned for being an asshat on another instance.I wont get banned on hexbear ? Right ? (Not that I plan on causing trouble)
That is correct
And them on lemmygrad:
I can assure you there will be no lemmygrad brigades, that energy would be better funneled into the current war against liberalism on the wider fediverse
A single login solution is to find a third party that federates with both lemmy.world and hexbear. Hexbear’s list is pretty limited so it’d have to be one of those, but unless others follow lemmy.world’s choice you’ll be able to see and post on both instances.
I think their admins are doing an honest job trying to put out reminders for good behavior (**edit: I hadn’t originally followed the links to the admin’s comments elsewhere, I no longer think they’re doing an honest job), the problem is that the sub they grew from never heeded similar admonishments and their federation post explicitly says they will not be moderated for activity outside of hexbear, so it’s really just a suggestion, not a rule.
I don’t agree with anti-western ideology being a good reason for defederation, but I do expect hexbear to be a major source of trolling from past experience with r/CTH. Reddit post-Donald and post-CTH bans was a noticeably less trolly (NOT saying they’re even remotely equivalent, just both were sources of trolling and were banned at the same time).
Fucking lol. This has to trolling too. No chapo could possibly be surprised people think of them as trolls. Most of them are proud of it.
This is the same argument about banning on Reddit, but as a former mod, my experience is that very few people will actually go through the effort to spin up an alt to keep trolling. A handful will (we had one person who put a note in their calendar to send a “mean” modmail every month for a weirdly long time), but most are just lazy bored posters who have fun messing with people they don’t like, and if they can’t conveniently browse their targets for opportunities, they’ll just go do something else they find fun rather than go through the effort. Despite accounts being basically free and meaningless, banning trolls was unexpectedly effective.
CTH did more than just troll, but doing something in addition to trolling doesn’t make you not a troll. Most of the rest of Reddit didn’t experience the fun in-sub content, they just experienced its trolling and brigading, and we don’t need to pretend that Hexbear and r/CTH aren’t largely one and the same. They don’t need federation to do the internal culture stuff you’re waxing poetic about, they need federation to troll.
And I couldn’t care less whether calling CTH or your thousands of friends trolls is going to make you hostile. THEY were hostile to other people because it was fun for them. The trolling is already here via the OP. It’s tiresome and just degrades forums for their targets and everyone not in on the joke trying to figure out what their issue is. You guys don’t get to spend years trolling reddit just to say “we have a new name now, so you can’t judge us on our prior actions”.
Maybe admins will wait and see. If somehow it isn’t a huge source of trolling then I fully support federating. But I’m going to say I don’t think the odds are good. And if the admins do what you expect and don’t go back and revisit the choice I can’t say I’m going to think it’s a huge loss.
Alternately make non-troll leftists join a non-troll instance if they want to just go out into the wider Fediverse without the stigma. Once they federate they won’t have to be on the CTH-successor instance, they’re choosing to be there. Like I said in my other reply to you, I don’t find the lemmygrad users nearly as trollish as CTH was. It’s not the ideology that’s the problem, it’s the trolling, and they’re pre-announcing they won’t do anything to curb trolling by their users.
CTH wasn’t just a sub that happened to have some users who also trolled, they frequently organized and bragged about trolling and brigading there. And while mods need to be ready to ban individual trolls, it’s also a volunteer activity and not dealing with a rotating cast of trolls or massive brigades could be worth shutting out some posters who wouldn’t be a problem themselves. I don’t think it’s an unreasonable stance to say “wait and see if it’s a problem”, but I also don’t think it’s an unreasonable stance to say “we know what’s likely going to happen, we’re not robots who have to pretend we were born yesterday”.
Federation only duplicates stuff an instance’s users subscribe to, so if you’re a single user instance it wouldn’t copy anything you don’t see (if you actually vet your subscriptions and regularly view their content).