No worries, and thanks for providing a response nonetheless. I’ll look into your suggestion when I have the time. The official Wireguard website also had some guide on network namespaces here but afaik it didn’t explain how to set it up persistently

So it’s really that simple…I can see why there are security issues 😅

Great write-up, I’ve been looking for something like this. I’ve heard of vopono and eznetns before but not namespaced-openvpn, and this is the first post I’ve seen where somebody details how they use a tool like this, so thanks! I’ll have to try setting it up some time.

Yeah, you don’t have to dig very deep to find out how insecure our networks are. Mac addresses can be spoofed, ports can be scanned, TCP numbers can be guessed, etc…

From a privacy standpoint I don’t think it would make a big difference over not using a VPN at all. It will take a bit of time but your new IP will become associated with your identity. From the perspective of Facebook and Google, it will just look like you moved and are living inside a datacenter now.

That sounds very cool, I’ve been interesting in network namespaces but it’s hard to find information on how to use them. How did you do it?

If exposing hostnames and IP addresses is dangerous

It’s not necessarily dangerous, but it’s a major privacy issue. Hiding your browsing history from other people (except for the VPN provider) is one of the main reasons why people get a commercial VPN in the first place. And this vulnerability mainly concerns those users.

I added clarification that the HTTPS part is assuming that the attacker has already performed the DHCP attack. Thanks for the note!

The DHCP race is one part I didn’t go into detail about since I’m not very familiar with the details, but what you wrote makes sense. One potential danger is a hacker at a coffee shop, where the shop owner is unlikely to be monitoring the network, and there are going to be many new connections coming in all the time. It’s still an unlikely scenario, but it also isn’t a particularly difficult attack.

No offense taken, on the contrary thanks for the constructive criticism! I’ll add some more details to my repo to make things more clear.

Yeah, it does come down to threat model and preference. If you only need to route specific apps, Gluetun sounds like a great solution.

I see what you mean now. I wouldn’t advocate for people to disable DHCP features either. It should be the VPN provider’s responsibility to provide a proper VPN client that mitigates attacks like these.

Yeah TOR is an example of a mixnet. WHat I was talking about was a combination of your Scenario A and Scenario B, where you have a mixnet where everybody’s traffic goes through multiple proxies, and many people are using each proxy, and you have padding and timing added to make sure traffic flows are consistent. As far as trusting nodes, you have to do that regardless of your set up. If you don’t use any VPN, you have to trust your ISP. If you use a VPN like Mullvad, you have to trust Mullvad. If you use a mixnet, you have to trust that all your chosen proxies aren’t colluding. So like you said, it’s up to your own judgement and threat model.

why is a split tunnel relevant? I thought all VPNs are vulnerable unless they use a firewall like I do, or network namespaces.

At least the way I understand it, a normal VPN redirects your internet traffic to instead go through a virtual network interface, which then encrypts and sends your traffic through the VPN. This attack uses a malicious DHCP server to inject routes into your system, redirecting traffic to the attacker instead of towards the virtual network interface.

Hypothetically, what if everybody in the world were using mixnets to obfuscate destination/origin, and then mullvad’s DAITA to obfuscate traffic timing and size. Would netflow analysis be able to defeat that?

It all depends on how much you trust the devices on your LAN. So your ISP can’t do anything unless they own and control your router, since that is on your LAN. So one concern might be if you connect your PC to coffee shop wifi, since all other devices in the shop are on the same LAN, not to mention the coffee shop owns the wifi router and can also perform the attack. Another concern might be if a family member in your house has a device that got hacked, then all devices in your house are vulnerable.

I think you both are talking past each other. You said “But if nobody else is using those same endpoints.” but @MigratingtoLemmy@lemmy.world said “There’s plenty of people who are going to be renting VPSes and will have their traffic originate from the same IP range as mine”. Reading this thread, it seems like you both have different network setups in mind.

Do you know how to make it so all the host’s traffic is sent through the VPN namespace? I couldn’t figure out how to do this so I ended up just writing my own firewall. Network namespaces seems like a better solution.

I saw that but unfortunately it doesn’t detail how to set it up persistently on every boot. And I also haven’t seen anybody using this method, probably because of the lack of tooling around it. For example afaik the official Mullvad client on linux just uses a firewall.

How do you route all a host system’s traffic through Gluetun? If you use routing tables, wouldn’t it similarly be affected by TunnelVision? In which case you would still need a firewall on the host…

Also, the host system likely makes network requests right after boot, before a Gluetun container has time to start. How do you make sure those don’t leak?

I am curious though, how you were able to route all host traffic through Gluetun. I know it can be used as a http/socks proxy, but I only know of ways to configure your browser to use that. What about other applications and system-level services? What about other kinds of traffic, like ssh?

Using untrusted networks is quite common, like coffee shop wifi or airport wifi.