I don’t disagree with a lot of what the Unabomber wrote. I don’t disagree with this person’s hatred of the healthcare system.
But you cannot assassinate your way out of capitalism.
It just does not work that way. You cannot assassinate corporations into putting people over profits when they are legally required to do the opposite and you cannot assassinate your way into a law being changed.
Whether or not it can be resolved with violence, it will not be resolved with targeted assassinations by a handful of people.
There is no example where a capitalist system was toppled with targeted assassinations. There are lots of examples where the security state got a whole hell of a lot more oppressive after them though.
I’m sure that totally won’t happen this time in the U.S. for sure.
That’s such bullshit, security escalation happens either way, they don’t need any excuse, just see the track record.
Also, it’s not like anyone is saying this killing solved capitalism, they just know its impact has shaken the ideological foundation a lot more than finger-wagging at people on the internet
The Internet has not changed the ideological foundation in the slightest. It has sparked some calls for reform, but the capitalistic ideology hasn’t been changed at all through this murder.
Does it help? Because I’m guessing what will happen here is CEOs will just get big security details and less-discerning copycats will end up killing innocent people.
And rates will continue to rise and not one less person will be denied.
But look at the populist anger this action sparked. These kind of extrajudicial killings that rile up the population, are very much associated with revolutions and changes in power. (Sometimes for good, sometimes for bad).
Dude, America just elected a plutocrat dictator. There’s not going to be socialized medicine any time in the near future and insurance companies will pass the cost of their security teams on to the people forced to pay for their needless existences.
I don’t. But it means that these people may not be so far from the same ideal as us. Which matters in convincing people for a revolution, and elections later on (if they still will be free and fair after Trump).
In fact, polling showed, a substantial number of people in 2016 and 2020 went from Bernie voting in primaries to voting Trump.
The people want someone who isn’t scared to criticise neoliberal elitism.
No security is foolproof, and a security detail has precious little ability to withstand a raging mob. Importantly, there are only so many former spec ops for hire. Most of these psychopaths will have to settle for 3rd rate rentacops.
I agree with you.
Imo, we need something besides assasinations/sabotages. We have to educate ourselves and others into trusting each other, working with each other, having empathy and understanding solidarity.
But I don’t see a way out of capitalism without violence, sadly.
Violence? Maybe. Targeted assassinations? No way. This will just make insurance premiums go up because the companies will all hire huge security details and pass those costs on to the people forced to pay for insurance.
As much as people are disagreeing, you’re right. The systemic pressure is too great to fix it using fear of assassination alone. We need to change the rules if we want to change the game.
How about it? Literally nothing to do with ending capitalism. The assasination of Franz Ferdinand was done in the name of Serbian nationalism. How does it apply here?
You are grasping at straws, try again.
Gavrilio Princip was an anarchist. Despite what libertarians might have you believe, they are not and never have been fans of capitalism. So no, I’m not.
You know what oligarchs can afford? More security than you can imagine. This one just didn’t think to. Do you think any of the other ones will make that mistake? Who do you think will be paying for that security?
Maybe, but that does not change what I said. They won’t be paying for the security. Premiums will go up. This will not do anything to stop the capitalist healthcare system.
That was a massive popular revolution, not targeted assassination. So why would I tell that to the French?
People also always leave out the fact that it took only 15 years to go from that popular uprising to an emperor being crowned who had just as much power as the king who was executed.
In that vein, revolutions have as much of a chance to end poorly as to end well. Look at what is happening in Syria right now. There are a lot of players. The ideal arrangement would be peaceful power sharing inside of a democratic framework, but there is every chance that Assad will be replaced with another violent authoritarian regime.
You can’t ‘thoughts and prayers’ your way out of capitalism either.
And you will find that out when your rates go up because all of the insurance companies will hire massive security teams to protect their executives and pass that on to you.
Me too tbh. I really don’t wish to abandon lemmy as I left reddit, since I prefer a federated system to it but all these posts are making me think. I just have this ethical principle where murder in most cases is bad and don’t like seeing violence being advocated.
I don’t disagree with a lot of what the Unabomber wrote. I don’t disagree with this person’s hatred of the healthcare system.
But you cannot assassinate your way out of capitalism.
It just does not work that way. You cannot assassinate corporations into putting people over profits when they are legally required to do the opposite and you cannot assassinate your way into a law being changed.
The current system was forged with violence. What so you think is gonna beat it? Thoughts and prayers?
Whether or not it can be resolved with violence, it will not be resolved with targeted assassinations by a handful of people.
There is no example where a capitalist system was toppled with targeted assassinations. There are lots of examples where the security state got a whole hell of a lot more oppressive after them though.
I’m sure that totally won’t happen this time in the U.S. for sure.
That’s such bullshit, security escalation happens either way, they don’t need any excuse, just see the track record. Also, it’s not like anyone is saying this killing solved capitalism, they just know its impact has shaken the ideological foundation a lot more than finger-wagging at people on the internet
The Internet has not changed the ideological foundation in the slightest. It has sparked some calls for reform, but the capitalistic ideology hasn’t been changed at all through this murder.
I said shaken, change takes longer, but things like this are part of it
People are absolutely saying that this will change everything.
I never implied that, but it’s definetely something that didn’t seem possible in many mines before
It doesn’t hurt to remind the ruling class once in a while whose boss.
But yeah. A revolution will take a lot more than a targeted assination of a couple CEOs.
Does it help? Because I’m guessing what will happen here is CEOs will just get big security details and less-discerning copycats will end up killing innocent people.
And rates will continue to rise and not one less person will be denied.
In the short term yes you’re right.
But look at the populist anger this action sparked. These kind of extrajudicial killings that rile up the population, are very much associated with revolutions and changes in power. (Sometimes for good, sometimes for bad).
Dude, America just elected a plutocrat dictator. There’s not going to be socialized medicine any time in the near future and insurance companies will pass the cost of their security teams on to the people forced to pay for their needless existences.
That plutocrat was elected through a manipulation of populist rage.
Check out the policy proposal forums RFK and Trump set up for their supporters. Expanding Medicare has more upvotes than downvotes
Paul Krugmann wrote an interesting piece touching on this yesterday (Gift Article) https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/09/opinion/elites-euro-social-media.html?unlocked_article_code=1.gU4.cSdP.OL0VogKNmVT3&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
What difference does that make now? Why do you think they actually care what their supporters want?
I don’t. But it means that these people may not be so far from the same ideal as us. Which matters in convincing people for a revolution, and elections later on (if they still will be free and fair after Trump).
In fact, polling showed, a substantial number of people in 2016 and 2020 went from Bernie voting in primaries to voting Trump. The people want someone who isn’t scared to criticise neoliberal elitism.
Yes, the famously free and fair elections under dictatorships.
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You really think this represents US society at large? I think you’ll need a better source than that.
No security is foolproof, and a security detail has precious little ability to withstand a raging mob. Importantly, there are only so many former spec ops for hire. Most of these psychopaths will have to settle for 3rd rate rentacops.
Which, again, is not targeted assassination.
The same method probably won’t work again.
I agree with you.
Imo, we need something besides assasinations/sabotages. We have to educate ourselves and others into trusting each other, working with each other, having empathy and understanding solidarity.
But I don’t see a way out of capitalism without violence, sadly.
Violence? Maybe. Targeted assassinations? No way. This will just make insurance premiums go up because the companies will all hire huge security details and pass those costs on to the people forced to pay for insurance.
As much as people are disagreeing, you’re right. The systemic pressure is too great to fix it using fear of assassination alone. We need to change the rules if we want to change the game.
Not with that attitude you won’t…
Not with any attitude regarding assassinating your way out of capitalism.
It simply will not work.
And if you think healthcare in America is going to get cheaper or fairer because of this, you know nothing about America.
Is there a historical precedent you can point to that proves your statement here?
Are you serious? How about World War I?
How about it? Literally nothing to do with ending capitalism. The assasination of Franz Ferdinand was done in the name of Serbian nationalism. How does it apply here? You are grasping at straws, try again.
Gavrilio Princip was an anarchist. Despite what libertarians might have you believe, they are not and never have been fans of capitalism. So no, I’m not.
Yeah, just nationalism and nothing else.
Some Princip quotes:
But those are just things he personally said, not a Wikipedia entry, so…
I think we can actually. It just does work that way. People a are very discouraged by fear, and these oligarchs are no different.
You know what oligarchs can afford? More security than you can imagine. This one just didn’t think to. Do you think any of the other ones will make that mistake? Who do you think will be paying for that security?
Sounds to me like becoming an oligarch is a downgrade from normal life where you can walk where you like.
Maybe, but that does not change what I said. They won’t be paying for the security. Premiums will go up. This will not do anything to stop the capitalist healthcare system.
Tell that to the French
That was a massive popular revolution, not targeted assassination. So why would I tell that to the French?
People also always leave out the fact that it took only 15 years to go from that popular uprising to an emperor being crowned who had just as much power as the king who was executed.
In that vein, revolutions have as much of a chance to end poorly as to end well. Look at what is happening in Syria right now. There are a lot of players. The ideal arrangement would be peaceful power sharing inside of a democratic framework, but there is every chance that Assad will be replaced with another violent authoritarian regime.
Yeah French revolution didn’t have any lasting impact on global society
Should just kept the king and worked within the system lll
I didn’t say any of those things or even imply them. Why are you putting a bunch of nonsense in my mouth?
You were down playing its impact and making these implications by omission.
If you disagree with my assessment you are free to clarify your position on the French revolution and its impact on the class relations;)
I disagree with you putting words in my mouth. If you don’t understand what I meant, ask me. Don’t lie.
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You can’t ‘thoughts and prayers’ your way out of capitalism either.
And you will find that out when your rates go up because all of the insurance companies will hire massive security teams to protect their executives and pass that on to you.
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But you can kill innocent people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kaczynski#Bombings
Because I don’t know what a computer store owner or a secretary or a graduate student did to deserve having a bomb go off in their hands.
And people here seem increasingly willing to let innocent people get hurt or killed in this new war against CEOs. I find it really, really disturbing.
Me too tbh. I really don’t wish to abandon lemmy as I left reddit, since I prefer a federated system to it but all these posts are making me think. I just have this ethical principle where murder in most cases is bad and don’t like seeing violence being advocated.
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What the fuck are you even talking about? What exactly do you think anti-drunk driving laws are about, targeting Chevrolet for their negligence?
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I see you haven’t visited a fuckcars corner of the Internet.
Mental therapy is the way. Our government is an expression of our massed anxiety and disconnectedness. Cure the insanity and society will follow.
The ubiquitous insanity that got Trump elected, and winning him the popular vote as well?
And you think assassinating CEOs will somehow cure that because it is somehow “therapy?”
I didn’t say that.
Then what was your point in relation to what I was saying about targeted assassinations not fixing capitalism?
I am sure bootlicking will drive change
Who’s boots am I licking? Please quote me doing so.
You shill regime propaganda while pretending to on working class
It is uncouth
What does that sentence even mean?
Please quote me.
Or are you lying?