• mienshao@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      43
      arrow-down
      5
      ·
      4 days ago

      They were confirmed nuclear enrichment sites though. Iran openly admits that’s what those sites were. Definitely not “random shit.”

      • Tinidril@midwest.social
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        21
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        4 days ago

        Here’s the thing about refined uranium. It’s a whole lot more portable than unrefined uranium. That’s even more true of uranium that’s been refined to the point where it could be used to make a nuclear weapon within weeks. There’s no reason to think it would be stored on site, especially after a week of Israeli bombardment.

        • theneverfox@pawb.social
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          3 days ago

          Make a nuclear weapon within weeks? What?

          Yeah, enrichment is the hardest part… That doesn’t mean the rest is easy

          • Tinidril@midwest.social
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            3 days ago

            I don’t actually think they were weeks away, but don’t you think they would be working on the other parts in parallel? It’s not like they are going to end up with an arsenal worth of weapons grade uranium then suddenly remember that there are other steps.

            • theneverfox@pawb.social
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              ·
              3 days ago

              No, they’re not working on the other parts as far as we know, and it’s not exactly something you can do in a garage

              They could get the high explosives easy enough, but you need a strong and precisely made casing to make sure you’re launching everything together to make it as angry as possible for a split second. You also need someone who understands the engineering well enough to actually do it, particularly without testing

              And all that to get the bomb… A bomb they’d basically have to drive in. They don’t have icbms, the missiles they do have are often intercepted, and they don’t have a plane that could get past nearly anyone’s air defense.

              And at the end of the day, they could just lie and say they have it… The fact the intelligence community doesn’t think they’re working on the rest of the bomb matters just as much as the ability to make one

              Does Israel have nukes? Who knows… So many rumors have gone around about them having them that it’s just accepted as true

              Do Russia and China have working nukes? What about India and Pakistan? Do the US nukes even still work? No one is sure

              It also just doesn’t really matter… The only people who actually would ever need their nukes to work are the French, because their nuclear doctrine includes a warning shot

              • Tinidril@midwest.social
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                ·
                3 days ago

                they’re not working on the other parts as far as we know

                I agree, but we wouldn’t know. Iran is a modern world power that’s perfectly capable of doing things in secret that don’t fit in a garage.

                We know with certainty that Iran has enriched a stockpile of 60% uranium. That’s not sufficient to say that nuclear capabilities are imminent, but it’s enough to say that they have long term goals in that direction. (Which makes perfect sense, and should not itself be provocative).

                You also need someone who understands the engineering well enough to actually do it, particularly without testing

                The US did it 75 years ago with no instruction book. Iran’s population is about the same as the US’s was at the time, and they have the benefit of all those years of manufacturing advancements. It’s borderline racist to assume this would be a problem for them.

                They don’t have icbms

                They have IRBMs, and Israel has been far from 100% successful at shooting them down. That’s with heavier payloads that have to reach the ground before detonating. Their IRBMs also include a small number of more modern systems that are nearly impossible for Israel to shoot down.

                they could just lie and say they have it

                Like in high school? “I swear, she used her tongue and everything!”. I’m not so sure that’s going to buy them much leverage. (Which would be the real point of having them.)

                Do Russia and China have working nukes? What about India and Pakistan? Do the US nukes even still work? No one is sure.

                I don’t think there is any plausible doubt about any of those but Russia. Even Russia is still certain to have some functional nukes. The only doubts are about how many. Also, Fission bombs have a really long shelf life. It’s fusion bombs that require tons of ongoing and expensive maintenance.

                • theneverfox@pawb.social
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  3 days ago

                  The US did it 75 years ago with no instruction book. Iran’s population is about the same as the US’s was at the time, and they have the benefit of all those years of manufacturing advancements. It’s borderline racist to assume this would be a problem for them.

                  The US did it, with most of the world’s best scientists and engineers in all related fields, in a huge research compound in the middle of the most defensible continent on an infinite budget

                  More importantly, the US could test at will. Iran can’t test their work without starting a war.

                  I could go through the other points, but I don’t think you understand the game theory elements of mutually assured destruction well enough to have that talk yet…

                  But you sum it up, the nukes themselves don’t matter, literally, they don’t matter at all. The threat of potential nukes is what matters, and that’s why multiple countries spend billions to maintain a nuclear triad

                  • Tinidril@midwest.social
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    2 days ago

                    I’ll stress again, the US did it with no instruction book. Most of those great scientists were theoretical physiscists. There is nothing theoretical that needs doing. Many were involved in crunching numbers. Computers do that now. The US did get to test, and tested exactly once. Testing of components prior to that is not something that would be particularly detectable. The challenges today are just about the precision engineering and manufacturing.

                    I get that you think that countries routinely neglect maintenance of their nuclear arsenals just because using them is not necessary to MAD. It’s not that complicated, it’s just wrong. The US and Russia used to do regular inspections of each-others weapons to maintain MAD. That wasn’t all that long ago. There is no telling when such an agreement might come into play again which would greatly disadvantage countries not keeping things up. We also know for certain, because of those inspections, that the US and Russia had established proper maintenance routines. There is reason to believe that Russia may not have kept it all up, but it’s really doubtful that the US abandoned that maintenance.

                    If a non-nuclear power like Iran were to suddenly declare that they are now a nuclear power, some amount of proof would be required before it was taken seriously. To think otherwise isn’t ignorant, it’s insane. I have to wonder why you think they haven’t tried your clever hack already.

      • Bloomcole@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        3 days ago

        They had nuclear power plants since the 1960’s. As is their right. That’s not something you have to ‘admit’ The US attacking a nuclear facility though is a grave warcrime.
        Maybe that’s something you may want to ‘admit’.

        • Bloomcole@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          3 days ago

          BCS the IAEA officially said it and also it’s none of your fucking business?
          But no, commit yet another warcrime by bombing a NUCLEAR FACILITY.
          Fucking arrogant nutbags.

    • redsand@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      19
      arrow-down
      14
      ·
      4 days ago

      Wow. +23 -3 on a verifiably false claim. So this place can be as dumb as reddit. Iran has known enrichment facilities, remember the whole " Iran nuclear deal" last time?

        • redsand@lemmy.dbzer0.com
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          9
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          4 days ago

          Nope. No way to tell them apart without in person inspection. It’s like the difference between vodka and everclear; both use the same distillation gear but with different goals

          • njm1314@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            17
            ·
            4 days ago

            Too bad we tore up the treaty that allowed us to do those inspections and then launched a sneak attack instead of finishing the talks that we’re about to establish another treaty.

          • thespcicifcocean@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            7
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            3 days ago

            if only there were some international treaty body that recently did an in person inspection in Iran and did find that they were enriching uranium with the goal of getting weapon grade uranium.

          • Bloomcole@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            4
            ·
            edit-2
            3 days ago

            LOL look at this guy
            Explain your scientificly valid “vodka and everclear” explanation to the dumbasses of the IAEA who clearly stated there wasn’t an arms program.
            I’m sure you have a degree in Nucular science from the Dubya University of Intelligence. 🤡

            • redsand@lemmy.dbzer0.com
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              3 days ago

              You don’t understand the similarities between chemical distillation and nuclear enrichment? Do you want a more in depth explaination of both processes or do I need to use smaller words or something?

              • Bloomcole@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                arrow-down
                3
                ·
                3 days ago

                Sure, I’ve distilled some moonshine with fractional distillation in my back yard, next week a nuclear bomb, how hard can it be?
                Jeez, stop embarrassing yourself.