This is going to be a short and sweet little history of Reddit. Reddit was founded in 2005.
Take a look at what Reddit looked like in 2006: https://web.archive.org/web/20061206235353/http://reddit.com/
Note that it didn’t have subreddits back then because the user base was too small.
Look at Reddit in 2008 (December 31): https://web.archive.org/web/20081231080128/http://www.reddit.com/reddits/
Politics had just 72,314 subscribers. Technology had 85,678 subscribers, and the “Nicher” Food subreddit had only 4,438 subscribers.
Lemmy/Kbin follows the same path. Initially, generalist communities like Politics and Technology will have the most momentum and gain subscribers, just like Reddit did back then. As the user base grows, “niche” communities will be able to sustain themselves.
Let’s not think about the Reddit of today, let’s think about Reddit of old. Rome wasn’t built in a day.
Fragmentation will be a huge problem if we want Lemmy and Kbin to succeed. We can’t have 45000 technology communities with 45000 duplicate posts with 45000 different discussions under these posts. We need a way to unify all this in the clients and that, to me, seems like a pretty big issue as you can’t just get all the posts and merge them without ddosing all the Lemmy instances or without other unwanted side effects
I’m not saying Lemmy/Kbin are perfect but fragmentation is a red herring. Reddit has a HUGE degree of fragmentation, look at how many news subs there are or wrestling versus squaredcircle ect. It’s not really an issue either, take the wildly different approaches Games takes to Gaming; each community serves a related, but unique purpose.
The true battle here is userbase and thankfully those numbers are climbing at a sustainable rate. If we ever get into the hundreds of millions of users it won’t matter how many cooking subs there are, there would be enough unique and viable ones that everyone would have just the one they were looking for.
There was always a main one though, the others were splinters that happened after the main one succeeded. The problem here is they are all small, all the same name, and competing with each other to become the main one.
You can have /r/technology and /r/tech and /r/technews etc…
It’s a problem that resolves itself. One community or the other will “win”.
And if not, whatever. On Reddit, my home city has two subreddits. The content between them is slightly different (different mod teams) and the comments on duplicate posts are different. I subscribed to both to see slightly different opinions and avoid echo chamber.
It doesn’t help when the same user posts the same thing over a bunch of instances. It’s obnoxious.
This is what drives me crazy. Just pick an instance to post on.
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I disagree. To me, instances are like countries with their own constitution (rules) and police (mods). This means that two communities in different instances may seem the same, but they are not, because they have to follow the rules and culture of their instance.
Just like a PS5 club in Germany will not be the same as the PS5 club in the US because they will be culturally different. I think it will take some time for the Fediverse to think this way.
For me, this is better. Instead of having one giant technology community where your comments and posts are drowned out, we can have different technology communities with their own culture and norms, just like we visit different countries. Your comment and posts will be not drowned out.
It is a different paradigm to the centralised one of Reddit.
I still think getting to those other “countries” will be a challenge, but can be overcome.
I saw an issue that would allow admins to just point a sub to another server, if that community grows more. seems like a reasonable idea.
Users will only subscribe to a couple of those though, so It’ll be a competition amongst them all. Collections with the best content, discussions, and moderation will win.
why can’t we?
We’re going to need a bigger boat
Lemmy/Kbin will follow the same path.
I hope it’s not the same toxification path at least.
It’s 100% going to be.
Lemmy isn’t “special”. I’ve already seen hot takes and other things to get people riled up on Lemmy.
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Shills, activists, trolls, state actors, and advertisers follow the eyeballs. They don’t give a crap if it is on the fediverse or some other platform.
If the fediverse capabilities can’t evolve to provide controls, then it’s doomed to failure. It’s already bad enough that bot accounts will create a new community then spam the crap out of it to appear on the “hot” view. Expect this to be turbocharged as the US enters another election cycle.
r/politics problem isn’t that it’s infested with maga nonsense….idk what you’re even talking about.
R/politics problem is that it’s a doomer cesspool that doesn’t actually like talking about politics, but likes to complain and talk about Trump all the time.
I’m a borderline socialist, so pretty left leaning, and that subreddit is way too toxic for me. I’m not interested in that type of discourse.
Let me clarify because I can tell I implied too much and it just ended up not being communicated. That’s on me.
My point is an issue with moderation. The simple fact is toxic behavior is allowed because mods/admins/etc. on forums tend to be too cautious with the ban hammers unless a rule is explicitly violated. If someone is disruptive to the community and constantly starting fights, even if they don’t “break a rule on the side bar,” the mods at /r/politics needed to just show them the door but never did. I don’t know if it’s a well meaning but misguided commitment to “Free Speech :TM:” or concern about the optics to the community or whatever, regardless if there is someone in your hen house riling up all the hens every day, it doesn’t matter if they’re a wolf or a hen. Kick them out.
At present I have not seen many admins with the stomach to enforce like that. But if we want to actually not be reddit all over again, that’s what it will take. Beehaw I think has some decent ideas about how to handle this problem via defederation, and I think it’s a real solution that needs to be explored more, but ultimately admins need to just kick people out when they’re particularly toxic and disruptive.
The reason I mentioned the “stop the steal” crowd in particular is because 100% of the time it is just a horrible flame war the moment they pop in. Dozens of removed comments and just insults hurled everywhere.
Admins did take steps against far-right instances. But I didn’t even mean politics, but more stuff like Redditors coming here and trying to import toxic stuff that Reddit used to allow, the whole “I’m gonna stalk you and downvote you everywhere” retaliation mentality because of karma, the low-effort comments and the flame baits (which Reddit loved since it created more engagement) etc…
I’ve already seen a couple of downvote-you-everywhere people being called out for doing it (votes are accessible in ActivityPub, and public in kbin).
I don’t think it’s as easy for them to flourish here.
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So far on Lemmy, whenever I see someone comment this, it’s because they’re mad Reddit got “toxic towards my free speech to stupid ass MAGA nonsense”. Is that what you mean by Reddit being “toxified”?
No, but your comment immediately assuming out of nowhere that everyone is a MAGAta*d is. Just holy cow, go outside and breathe man.
I think there’s a lot of people who desire free speech outside of MAGA people.
But I even believe they should have free speech too. Free speech is the most important element of our society imo.
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The government doesn’t like people questioning the narrative and I think a lot of these moves by social media platforms are an attempted method to train people to behave that way.
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I think educating people to identify and ignore the insane opinions should be the end goal
True. I think it is important to understand the social media landscape is much different now. 2008 was when Facebook was getting started too.
Let’s not think about the Reddit of today, let’s think about Reddit of old. Rome wasn’t built in a day.
I can agree with this to a degree, but can’t we just not think of reddit? I mean, back then, I don’t recall redditors obsessing over other sites as much as I have seen on lemmy. Digg was the top dog, and I don’t recall daily threads about reddit’s numbers or how it wasn’t matching up.
It was just it’s own thing and not constantly comparing itself to it’s alleged competition. I feel like that helped it grow into it’s own thing, and we should give lemmy a chance to do the same instead of trying to turn it into reddit 2.0. That said, I might just be forgetting—there could’ve been constant ‘sky-is-falling-because-we-aren’t-Digg’ posts—but I just don’t recall them.
Digg refugee from back then. The amount of people coming over wasn’t as significant as we see today. But yes there were lots of posts about how to use Reddit, tools to make Reddit look prettier or more like Digg. Diggers found the subreddit subscription confusing. Literally all the posts we see today from Redditors coming to Lemmy.
I can agree with this to a degree, but can’t we just not think of reddit? I mean, back then, I don’t recall redditors obsessing over other sites as much as I have seen on lemmy.
Back then, centralized corporate social media wasn’t seen as the clear and present danger to society that it is now, in our post-Cambridge-Analytica world.
It’s not enough to see Lemmy and Mastodon and Friendica succeed. Spez and Musk and Zuckerberg need to fail.
This so much. The fediverse is young, and still in its early stages, still ironing out a bunch of bugs and issues. It’s only growing so well because the reddit admins keep finding more feet to shoot themselves in
We don’t need to become Reddit
2008? Jesus I was a b/tard old-fag in those days and the hate for reddit was unreal. I had no idea it was the 9gag of its day.
https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=lemmy.world&s=104.26.9.209
Disable TLS v1.0 and 1.1
Yeah. Eventually there’ll be another meltdown. There always is. At that point , it’d be great to have established structures, a simplified onboarding and a compelling app ecosystem.
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True. Give Lemmy time.
