• OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml
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    1 year ago

    Well yea, countries keep buying nuclear from France because it’s clean, cheap, and they don’t want to suffer the political backlash from the science lacking environmentalists which come forward when they talk about building nuclear on their own land

      • tetris11@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        They have spurred on the solar/wind movement successfully though, albeit whilst using coal as a crutch. Even so, without the greens, alternative energy might never have been a discussion in a country like Germany which is positively obsessed with gas and cars

        • snaf@lemmy.sdf.org
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          1 year ago

          The problem is replacing nuclear with renewables does nothing to combat climate change. We need to be reducing fossil fuels. At the very least, they should have phased out coal before nuclear. While france was busy reducing its dependence on coal, Germany remains the largest producer of coal in Europe.

          • scratchee@feddit.uk
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            1 year ago

            You’re certainly right that their handling of nuclear was inefficient for reducing carbon output.

            I’m pretty pro nuclear, but I don’t think that really takes away from their success in pushing renewables forward, they were a very early adopter of solar thanks to their very generous subsidies and probably helped fuel its growth at a faster rate, so regardless of their unfortunate paranoia around nuclear, they do deserve some praise. Perfect is the enemy of good, and given the speed the world has responded to climate change, Germanys mixed and painful transition was certainly not the worst.

    • zik@aussie.zone
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      1 year ago

      cheap

      It’s literally the most expensive power of any of the major options.

      • m3m3lord@lemmy.ca
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        1 year ago

        "In December 2020 IEA and OECD NEA published a joint Projected Costs of Generating Electricity study which looks at a very broad range of electricity generating technologies based on 243 power plants in 24 countries. The primary finding was that “low-carbon generation is overall becoming increasingly cost competitive” and “new nuclear power will remain the dispatchable low-carbon technology with the lowest expected costs in 2025”. The report calculated LCOE with assumed 7% discount rate and adjusted for systemic costs of generation.[79] "

        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_electricity_by_source

        • oyo@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          The IEA is a bad joke that has been notoriously wrong in its projections for decades. Nobody in the industry takes them seriously.

        • zik@aussie.zone
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          1 year ago

          That page shows nuclear being way more expensive than photovoltaic solar with batteries, more expensive than wind power and more expensive than coal. So it exactly backs up my point.

          • m3m3lord@lemmy.ca
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            1 year ago

            The graph on the global studies page does seem to indicate that. However, if you actually read the data and how the graph was prepared, it uses one dataset for renewables and a different dataset for nuclear and coal. Additionally, these numbers significanly differ from the IEA data which shows that nuclear is one of the least expensive. As I said in a comment below, there are other, more localized studies that show nuclear is one of the cheaper ways to produce electricity. I would hesitate to say that nuclear is the cheapest option since there are different studies with different results, but to claim that it is the most expensive would be just as misguided for the same reasons. At the end of the day, more electricity is needed as countries look to decarbonize there energy needs. Hydro, wind, and solar are effective and renewable but a stable, carbon-free solution is needed where there is insufficient hydro or geothermal and I believe nuclear fits that bill perfectly.

            • zik@aussie.zone
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              1 year ago

              But the IEA is a lobby group. It’s not like their numbers have any credibility. Like I said, nuclear is way more expensive by all numbers except fake ones.

              • m3m3lord@lemmy.ca
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                1 year ago

                How is it a lobby group? Do you have any sources to back up your claim or is it simply based on your bias because you do not agree with the data they put together? Again, even if you discount their data, there are plenty of other studdies that corroborate the fact that nuclear is not the most expensive method of producing electricity, are all of them somehow wrong? What you need to understand is that there are different factors that can be included which can dramatically change whether one way of producing electricity is better or worse. Nuclear has a high up front capital cost but a very low operating cost per MW. Solar and wind are cheap initially but require replacement every 10 years or more and also generally need a way to store energy if they make up a bulk of the grid. If you factor in the lifecycle and energy storage costs, they are comparable to well designed nuclear plants. I am from ontario, and nuclear has been an incredible benefit to the province.

    • SMITHandWESSON@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Yup, just like Vegans, environmentalists come up with an answer they like and find some shakie science to back it up.

        • grue@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          WTF do “liberals” have to do with “environmentalists?” Liberals love exporting polluting activities to China in the name of “free trade.”

        • SMITHandWESSON@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          LoL, I’m pretty sure believing that nuclear energy is the path forward to a green new world is SCIENCE.

        • SMITHandWESSON@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          The groups I spoke of only like to use science that supports their narrative. If there’s any studies/experiments that refute what they belive in, they’ll usually disregard it.