• where_am_i@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    36
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    The biggest problem is that even OP is unaware of what is really being skipped: math, stats, optimization & control. And like at a grad level.

    But hey, import AI from HuggingFace, and let’s go!

  • d-RLY?@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    14
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    1 year ago

    This kind of vibe is becoming actually scary from a “no one knows how X actually works, but they are building things that might become problematic later” headspace. I am not saying that everyone needs to know everything. But one really really bad issue I see while fixing people’s PCs is that a shocking amount of high school and college aged folks are really about media creation and/or in comp sci majors. However they come to me with issues that make me question how they are able to function in knowing so many things that all involve computers, but not the computers themselves.

    These next paragraphs are mostly a rant about how the OSes are helping make the issue grow with all users and not just the above. Also more ranting about frustration and concern about no one caring about fundamentals of how the things they make their stuff on function. Feel free to skip and I am marking as a “spoiler” to make things slightly less “wall of text”.

    spoiler

    Some of it is the fault of the OSes all trying to act like smartphone OSes. Which do everything possible to remove the ability to really know where all your actual data is on the device. Just goes on there with a “trust me bro, I know where it is so you don’t need to” vibe. I have unironically had someone really really need a couple of specific files. And their answer to me when I asked if they knew where they might be saved was “on the computer.” Which was mildly funny to see them react when my face led to them saying “which I guess is beyond not helpful.” I eventually convinced him to freaking try signing into OneDrive like I had told him to do while I checked his local drive files. Which turns out it was not on the PC but in fact OneDrive. That was a much more straight forward moment. Microsoft tricking people into creating Microsoft Accounts and further tricking them into letting OneDrive replace “Documents”, “Desktop”, and “Pictures” local folders at setup is a nightmare when trying to help older folks (though even younger folks don’t even notice that they are actually making a Microsoft Account either). Which means if I just pull a drive out of a not booting computer those folders don’t exist in the User’s folder. And if the OneDrive folder is there, the data is mostly just stubs of actual files. Which means they are useless, and can be bad if the person only had a free account and it got too full and there is now data that may be lost due to those folders not “really” being present.

    They know how to use these (to me) really complicated programs and media devices. They know how to automate things in cool ways. Create content or apps that I will just never wrap my mind around. So I am not over here calling them stupid and just “dunking” on them. But they don’t care or just refuse to learn the basic hardware or even basic level troubleshooting (a lot is just a quick Google search away). They know how to create things, but not ask how the stuff that they use to create things works. So what will happen when the folks that know how things work are gone and all people know is how to make things that presuppose that the other things are functioning? All because the only things that get attention are whatever is new and teaching less and less the foundations. Pair that with things being so messed up that “fake it till you make it” is a real and honest mantra and means only fools will give actual credentials on their resumes.

    It is all about getting a title of a job, without knowing a damn thing about what is needed to do the job. It also means so many problems that were solved before are needing to be re-solved as if it was brand new. Or things that were already being done are “innovated” by people with good BS-ing skills in obtuse ways that sound great but just add lots of busy work. To which the next “innovator” just puts things back to before and are seen as “so masterful.” History and knowing how things work currently matter in making real advancements. If a coder just learns to always use functions or blobs of other projects without knowing what is in them. Then they could base basically everything on things that if are abandoned or purged will make their things no longer work.

    Given how quickly “professionals” from so so many industries are just simply relying on these early AI/MLs without question. They don’t verify if the information they got was factually true and can be cited from real sources. Instead of seeing that the results were made from the AI/MLs doing shit they have been taught to do. Which is to try and create things based on the “vibe” of actual data. The image generators are all about the attempts to take random prompts and compare to actual versions of things and make something kind of similar. But the text based ones are treated so differently and taken at a scary level of face value and trusted. And it is getting worse with so many “trusted” media outlets beginning to use these systems to make articles.

    • tronx4002@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      To be fair to the people you are describing, the ecosystem that makes up the whole of software is so large and complex that becoming an expert in even a small area is something that can take years. Sometimes you have to accept that it is better to focus on one area and not try to understand everything. A mechanic doesnt need to know how rubber is made to change a tire.

    • socsa@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      Nah, it’s pushing inference to prod. Any idiot can make an ipynb to train a model, but packaging everything into an app ecosystem is where you actually need a lot of non-ML software engineering know-how.

      • dadbod@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        So true. I’m on an AI product team. None of the engineers know that much about learning/ai — our expertise is in high availability/scalability/distributed systems.

        The AI part it when a data scientist hands us a notebook and says: implement this algorithm.

      • src@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        This is sadly how a lot of Computer Science students think nowadays.

        • Celivalg@iusearchlinux.fyi
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          I think the problem is that they are trying to teach math to generalists where in front of them are students formed to understand programmatical problems.

          Where the problems be restructured to a programatical problem, then it would work far far better.

          Mathematical exercises aim to solve 1 problem with 1 given set of parameters, programatical exercises aim to solve 1 problem with ANY given sets of parameters.

          And that’s what made me loose interest in math during my CS years.

          • MBM@lemmings.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            0
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            Mathematical exercises aim to solve 1 problem with 1 given set of parameters

            Maybe you just had some really bad teachers, but I couldn’t disagree more. A big part of maths is proving statements that hold very generally (and maybe making it even more abstract, e.g. applying it to anything you can add and multiply instead of just real numbers). It kind of starts when your answers start being formulas instead of numbers but it goes much further

  • MsPenguinette@lemmy.blahaj.zone
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    6
    ·
    1 year ago

    I’m very happy to see that the industry has moved away from the blockchain hype. AI/ML hype at least useful even if it is a buzzword for most places

    • ritswd@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      So true.

      With LLMs, I can think of a few realistic and valuable applications even if they don’t successfully deliver on the hype and don’t actually shake the world upside down. With blockchain, I just could never see anything in it. Anyone trying to sell me on its promises would use the exact words people use to sell a scam.

  • Presi300@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    4
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    I fully understand why people would wanna skip all this stuff, but just learn html and css instead of programming at that point lol. I’d know, that’s what I did…

    • failuer@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      Here’s a nickel kid. Get yourself a better computer.

      If you want to be a sysadmin learn Linux/Unix. Basic bash scripting might be useful down the line to help understand a bit of what’s going on under the hood.

      IMHO networking would probably be a better secondary place to focus for a sysadmin track rather than OOP concepts, algorithms etc.

      • Cool Beance@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        Thank you for the response. I’ll be sure to up my PC hardware game soon since I have plans to leap into a career shift. What kinds of specs would look good in your opinion?

        • demonsword@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          1 year ago

          My advice would be install any free virtualization software (virtualbox comes to mind) and create some linux VMs, dick around with them. No need to upgrade anything unless you’re using some ancient potato with more than 10 years

        • failuer@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          It’s a reference from an old comic

          https://blogs.warwick.ac.uk/images/steverumsby/2004/09/20/1b2.JPG

          As for Linux stuff grab something small and low powered (raspberry pi etc) and start installing some distros! The possibilities are really endless. Setup a network wide ad blocker, start your own IPTV server, you can setup a networked radio receiver, WireGuard for VPNs. Immerse yourself and figure out what you find interesting.

    • rockSlayer@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      There isn’t a singular “right way”, but you need to know the basics of computer science like OOP, algorithms, and data structures if you want to be a decent programmer. Everyone has their own advice, but here’s mine for whatever it’s worth.

      If you want to be a sysadmin, you should learn command line languages like batch, sed, and bash (or a superset language like batsh). Start simple and don’t overwhelm yourself, these languages can behave strangely and directly impact your OS.

      When you have a basic grasp on those languages (don’t need to get too complex, just know what you’re doing on the CLI), I’d recommend learning Python so you can better learn OOP and study networking while following along with the flask and socket libraries. The particular language doesn’t matter as much as the actual techniques you’ll learn, so don’t get hung up if you know or want to learn a different language.

      Finally, make sure you understand the hardware, software, and firmware side of things. I’d avoid compTIA certs out of principle, but they’re the most recognizable IT certification a person can get. You need to have some understanding of operating systems, and need to understand how to troubleshoot beyond power cycling

    • admin@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      There is a website called roadmap.sh which has both Skill and Role based roadmaps to learn how to program. There is no actual “SysAdmin” role path since our job can technically have several routes by itself.

      I personally use Debian at my org, and found Python and Bash enough to automate small things that need to be done in a regular basis.

      But if for example, you were a Windows SysAdmin you’d have to learn to use PowerShell ~ or VBS (idk if those scripts are still a thing)~ .

  • Diabolo96@lemmy.fmhy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    2
    ·
    1 year ago

    Joke on you ! I piggyback on real programmers to do the hard work and just assemble them in ugly mishmash and voilà ! “My” app.

  • WackyTabbacy42069@reddthat.com
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    Self taught and haven’t dipped my toes too deeply into those algorithms. That said, I def bought a textbook on data science and machine learning. I’ve been throwing myself at it periodically and still haven’t figured out how to make ChatGPT, or really any useful neural net lol