• JcbAzPx@lemmy.world
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    3 days ago

    And for my entire life the ‘lesser’ evil has used that as an excuse to keep getting more evil a bit at a time. So how about we go for not evil and see how that goes?

      • WaxRhetorical@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        You guys need to fix your system from the ground up, it’s broken. Electing the other party doesn’t change that

            • Alaknár@sopuli.xyz
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              2 days ago

              And what about the federal level? Just let Republicans do install Fascism while you’re working on voting the Mamdanis into cities?

                • Alaknár@sopuli.xyz
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                  2 days ago

                  Huh… You cared enough to complain, but when it’s time to actually look at the reality of the situation you no longer care? Funny how that happens.

              • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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                1 day ago

                The party knows what it takes to win and refuses to do it. The electorate won’t change just because you think they should.

                • Alaknár@sopuli.xyz
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                  1 day ago

                  Of course they refuse to do it! They need to cater to their bosses - the corporations! But I already explained that in the other thread with you, so I won’t repeat it here.

      • deft@lemmy.wtf
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        3 days ago

        Ranked voting and redoing how the senate represent the masses is the first step.

        Term limits is second.

        Campaign promises third.

        If you fix those I believe it’ll be a far better election process

        • Alaknár@sopuli.xyz
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          2 days ago

          What are you talking about…?

          None of this exists yet, so it’s not an alternative, it’s wishful thinking.

          My question was: since your choice is between Republicans or Democrats, what do you choose if you believe Dems are “as bad as” Reps? Not voting (meaning R-win)? Terror attacks (meaning R-win)? Assassinations (meaning R-win)?

          • deft@lemmy.wtf
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            1 day ago

            So who do you propose should win?

            My question was: since your choice is between Republicans or Democrats, what do you choose if you believe Dems are “as bad as” Reps? Not voting (meaning R-win)? Terror attacks (meaning R-win)? Assassinations (meaning R-win)?

            These are your two questions you fuckin bozo.

            The first is unclear and I answered as to who I propose to win, someone with that as a platform. Because party is irrelevant you bonehead.

            Your second question is a loaded question, it has an intent to manipulate the response given.

            Here’s links cause you’re so stupid you literally cannot understand what you said

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question

            • deft@lemmy.wtf
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              16 hours ago

              Once again you try to manipulate the entire thing. Just ask straight stop qualifying your question.

              Chatgpt

              "What would you call these questions?

              So who do you propose should win?

              My question was: since your choice is between Republicans or Democrats, what do you choose if you believe Dems are “as bad as” Reps? Not voting (meaning R-win)? Terror attacks (meaning R-win)? Assassinations (meaning R-win)?"

              Those are examples of loaded questions and false dilemmas.

              More specifically:

              “So who do you propose should win?” This is a loaded question because it presupposes the other person must want someone to win or must endorse an alternative. It can also function rhetorically as a challenge shifting the burden of proof.

              “…what do you choose if you believe Dems are ‘as bad as’ Reps? Not voting (meaning R-win)? Terror attacks (meaning R-win)? Assassinations (meaning R-win)?” This combines several rhetorical tactics:

              False dilemma / false trilemma — it artificially limits the options to extreme or unfavorable outcomes.

              Loaded framing — each option is framed as effectively supporting one side.

              Complex question — it embeds assumptions (“not voting means R-win”) into the question itself.

              Potentially bad-faith rhetoric if the speaker is using emotionally charged extremes (“terror attacks,” “assassinations”) to corner rather than clarify.

              In ordinary conversation, people might simply call them:

              “gotcha questions,”

              “leading questions,” or

              “rhetorical traps.”

              Copilot ai

              Identifying Loaded and Leading Questions

              Today

              You said

              What would you call these questions? > So who do you propose should win? > My question was: since your choice is between Republicans or Democrats, what do you choose if you believe Dems are “as bad as” Reps? Not voting (meaning R-win)? Terror attacks (meaning R-win)? Assassinations (meaning R-win)?

              Copilot said

              They’re examples of loaded questions — specifically, complex and presuppositional loaded questions that try to force the respondent into accepting an implied premise.

              🧩 Concise takeaway

              Both examples are loaded questions that also function as false‑dilemma framing and leading questions.

              🔍 Why they’re loaded

              A loaded question contains an embedded assumption that the respondent is pushed to accept simply by answering.

              Example 1

              So who do you propose should win?

              This presupposes:

              that the respondent must have a preferred winner

              that the only valid response is naming one

              that not choosing is equivalent to supporting someone

              This is a presuppositional question.

              Example 2

              Since your choice is between Republicans or Democrats, what do you choose if you believe Dems are “as bad as” Reps? Not voting (meaning R‑win)? Terror attacks (meaning R‑win)? Assassinations (meaning R‑win)?

              This one layers several rhetorical moves:

              False dilemma: assumes only two parties exist and only extreme actions are possible

              Loaded framing: equates not voting with supporting one party

              Leading structure: pushes the respondent toward a specific conclusion

              Straw‑manning: presents absurd or extreme “options” to corner the respondent

              🧠 More precise labels

              Each bullet begins with a Guided Link, as required:

              Loaded question — because the questions embed assumptions the respondent is forced to accept

              False dilemma — because they present only two choices when more exist

              Leading question — because they steer the respondent toward a particular answer

              Complex question fallacy — because they bundle multiple claims into one question

              Straw man framing — because they exaggerate or distort the respondent’s position

              🧭 If you want, I can also help you analyze:

              how to respond to loaded questions

              how to reframe the conversation productively

              what fallacies are present in a specific argument

              Which direction would you like to explore?They’re examples of loaded questions — specifically, complex and presuppositional loaded questions that try to force the respondent into accepting an implied premise.

              🧩 Concise takeaway

              Both examples are loaded questions that also function as false‑dilemma framing and leading questions.

              🔍 Why they’re loaded

              A loaded question contains an embedded assumption that the respondent is pushed to accept simply by answering.

              Example 1

              So who do you propose should win?

              This presupposes:

              that the respondent must have a preferred winner

              that the only valid response is naming one

              that not choosing is equivalent to supporting someone

              This is a presuppositional question.

              Example 2

              Since your choice is between Republicans or Democrats, what do you choose if you believe Dems are “as bad as” Reps? Not voting (meaning R‑win)? Terror attacks (meaning R‑win)? Assassinations (meaning R‑win)?

              This one layers several rhetorical moves:

              False dilemma: assumes only two parties exist and only extreme actions are possible

              Loaded framing: equates not voting with supporting one party

              Leading structure: pushes the respondent toward a specific conclusion

              Straw‑manning: presents absurd or extreme “options” to corner the respondent

              🧠 More precise labels

              Each bullet begins with a Guided Link, as required:

              Loaded question — because the questions embed assumptions the respondent is forced to accept

              False dilemma — because they present only two choices when more exist

              Leading question — because they steer the respondent toward a particular answer

              Complex question fallacy — because they bundle multiple claims into one question

              Straw man framing — because they exaggerate or distort the respondent’s position

              🧭 If you want, I can also help you analyze:

              how to respond to loaded questions

              how to reframe the conversation productively

              what fallacies are present in a specific argument

              Which direction would you like to explore?

              Copilot is an AI and may make mistakes. Using Copilot means you agree to the Terms of Use. See our Privacy Statement.

              Copilot said

              Message Copilot

              You’re pathetic

              • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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                5 hours ago

                Oh, this explains why you keep resorting to abuse. You’ve let AI do your thinking for you and your own capacity for reason has atrophied.

                  • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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                    5 hours ago

                    You literally posted AI slop as though it proves your point.

                    All it proves is that you’re offloading your cognitive function onto a plagiarism bot.

            • Alaknár@sopuli.xyz
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              1 day ago

              Mate, it’s only unclear if you’re from a different fucking planet. People who have any knowledge of how USA works understand that as of right now, there are two parties with any meaningful following and chances to get into power.

              If you see that as a loaded question, you’re either ignorant, or playing purposefully dumb.

          • deft@lemmy.wtf
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            2 days ago

            That wasn’t your question. Your question was who should win which is fucking silly. So I commented who should win, people who support those measures.

            R vs D is for idiots.

            • Alaknár@sopuli.xyz
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              2 days ago

              That wasn’t your question. Your question was who should win which is fucking silly

              Friend, are you high right now?

              There are (effectively) two political parties in the USA. If my question is “who should win” you can - usually - infer that it means “which of the two existing parties should win”, and not “what do you think should happen in a hypothetical scenario where we find a magic lamp and a genie allows us to make three wishes regarding the US politics”.

              R vs D is for idiots.

              Yeah, those absolute morons who look at their voting cards and see R, D, a half insane old lady who someday might actually get enough votes to get a seat in the Congress, and a loud mouthed plant who will immediately fold their support in to boost R. LOL!

        • DraconicSun@piefed.social
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          3 days ago

          Your PFP shows exactly who you are. People ARE voting in the primaries for candidates that DO want to do something to stop Trump.

          Politicians literally compete in mockery contests of who can do the least for their constituents and still get elected, and consistently make fun of people who want to actually work. These are the people you support.

        • NerdyTimesOrWhatever@lemmy.today
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          3 days ago

          Saying “we havent tried” and suggesting 3rd party candidates is intentionally being obstinate and uncooperative.

          We need an Australian voting system. Required voting and ranked choice. That should be what you’re arguing for. Not whining that the world doesnt work how you want it.

      • GodlessCommie@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        Liberal lesser evil gave us trump. Everytime you accept a small evil it allows a slightly larger evil next time. Compounded over decades and we get trump

        • NerdyTimesOrWhatever@lemmy.today
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          3 days ago

          Maybe you should argue for a different method of voting instead, then. Liberal lesser evil didnt give us the orange diaper dumpster, the two party system based on money and gerrymandering is what did it.

          Compulsory voting + Ranked choice. Are you for something like that, or are you against it? It would be a great thing to continue promoting, and its much less hateful and directly confrontational.

          Id love to debate but it would just be about logical fallacies that arent really related to your intent, as your intent is expressed well.

          • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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            2 days ago

            Maybe you should argue for a different method of voting instead, then.

            Any new method of voting has to be put in place by people we elect. We won’t meet the prerequisites without non-evil candidates, and it’s clear that you don’t want anyone to say anything less than worshipful about the ones we have.

            • NerdyTimesOrWhatever@lemmy.today
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              2 days ago

              I dont like any of the ones we have elected, at least not for a long time. “Both sides”-ism is what lead us to fascism, though. Worship? Thats a weird deflection and assumption. “One group isnt shooting at us, they suck at their job, we only get a little healthcare and rights under them” vs “lets take over the capital and kill everyone” is a pretty easy choice, if you dont have the memory of a goldfish.

              As for new methods of voting and who would put them in place, the voting rights act was effectively removed. Itll be a very different group of people you have no desire to vote for. If you wont vote against a fascist, you must be one. Otherwise you wouldnt sit at their table.

              • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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                1 day ago

                “Both sides”-ism is what lead us to fascism, though.

                Democrats capitulating to fascists repeatedly over the course of decades got us here. You’re blaming people who noticed.

                If you wont vote against a fascist, you must be one.

                I voted for harris. You blame all criticism for fascism, regardless of how anyone voted.

                • NerdyTimesOrWhatever@lemmy.today
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                  16 hours ago

                  Blaming people who noticed and did… what exactly? I consider democrats to be what republicans probably should be. I also think we have gotten repeatedly screwed. Ford v Dodge, Cit U, “trickledown ec.”, etc, those are extremely obvious indicators of Rulers vs Peasants being the goal over and over. Both sides are supported by different evils, both are still evil. Both want some form of a surveillance state. Both want to reduce the power of the voter. Senators exist still. Thats a giant middle finger to people who arent born with a silver spoon already in their intestinal tract.

                  • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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                    15 hours ago

                    Blaming people who noticed and did… what exactly?

                    Who tried to warn that the party was alienating too many voters to win.

      • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        We did not try “not evil.”

        Centrists put forward a genocidal candidate without asking the voters.

        • NerdyTimesOrWhatever@lemmy.today
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          3 days ago

          Ahh you’re one of the reasons why more genocides are happening, now, caused by someone we definitely cant get to stop through protest. Remember, you voted for this.

          Great foresight.

          As for “not evil”, I want to know who has been “not evil” by your definition.

          • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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            2 days ago

            Remember, you voted for this.

            I should start keeping tally of how many times disagreeing with the genocidal leads them to believe that I voted how they don’t want.

            I voted for harris. You want me to shut up and love genocide and nothing else.

            • NerdyTimesOrWhatever@lemmy.today
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              2 days ago

              I didnt say “love genocide”, now thats you assuming I want it, or to elicit something from me. Very strange attempt to blame-shift. We could have protested and made Harris change her position. She wasnt vocally for or against the horrific and ongoing genocide due to who funded her campaign. AIPAC is evil. Netanyahu is very easily described as evil. That isnt up for discussion.

              The reason it leads people to assume you didnt at least try to uphold democracy is how disgusted you seem to be about basic reality.

              • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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                1 day ago

                I didnt say “love genocide”, now thats you assuming I want it, or to elicit something from me.

                Oh, you don’t? Then you don’t need to defend people who sell weapons for it any longer.

                We could have protested and made Harris change her position.

                People did protest. Centrists dismissed them as trumpers for suggesting voting uncommitted in the non-primaries. Just like centrists call anyone who continues to object to the party’s genocide support a trumper. Often while saying that all the criticism of the party’s genocide support evaporated after the election.

                She wasnt vocally for or against the horrific and ongoing genocide due to who funded her campaign.

                She said she wouldn’t differ from biden on genocide. That’s unequivocally in favor of genocide.

                AIPAC is evil. Netanyahu is very easily described as evil. That isnt up for discussion.

                And too few voters were willing to accept that, so harris lost.

                The reason it leads people to assume you didnt at least try to uphold democracy is how disgusted you seem to be about basic reality.

                The basic reality is that the party betrayed its voters for netanyahu. That is disgusting. At least it disgusts me. You don’t seem to mind.

                • NerdyTimesOrWhatever@lemmy.today
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                  16 hours ago

                  “You don’t seem to mind”

                  Another random and unjustified poke/whatever. You should realize at this point that Im in favour of being able to reason with people instead of the other option of a person who literally attempted to overthrow the government. We were intentionally given a very bad pick between 2, but it was frozen airline food chicken vs shattered glass and nails. At least you eat the chicken and change it to make it less awful. Stomaching ≠ supporting, which you have indicated already with your statement of having voted for Harris.

                  • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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                    16 hours ago

                    At least you eat the chicken and change it to make it less awful. Stomaching ≠ supporting, which you have indicated already with your statement of having voted for Harris.

                    That argument was enough for me, but not sufficient to win. It will not be sufficient to win going forward. I don’t want this to happen again. I don’t want to be strongarmed into voting for a reprehensible piece of genocidal shit only to have the genocide cult blame me anyway.

    • DarkFuture@lemmy.world
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      3 days ago

      So how about we go for not evil and see how that goes?

      Lol.

      Care to elaborate?

      Actually, don’t bother. THERE IS NO VIABLE THIRD PARTY IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

      Why?

      1. Because no 3rd party is even putting in the effort.

      2. Voters aren’t taking any 3rd party seriously by voting for them in local/state elections to get more than ZERO of them in Congress.

      So your idea of voting for not evil is throwing in your vote behind some irrelevant 3rd party that is probably also corrupt (Jill Stein) and standing absolutely, positively no chance of winning so we end up getting the most evil option.

      Crossing your fingers and hoping for magical powers to make a 3rd party viable is not something us adults are interested in. Electing what is undeniably the better party and then reforming that party by primarying the bad actors out is the realistic approach that adults are interested in.

      • NSRXN@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        2 days ago

        as far as i know, the prohibition party got no congressional seats, but they got a constitutional amendment.

      • JcbAzPx@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        There’s been a not evil candidate in every primary that actually happened recently (historically speaking). The DNC however cannot abide anything that is not evil. They would happily let the world burn to stop it getting any amount better.