Summary
Sheryl Crow announced on Instagram that she is selling her Tesla and donating the proceeds to NPR, citing concerns over Elon Musk’s leadership.
NPR is under political scrutiny, with Republican lawmakers and FCC Chairman Brendan Carr launching investigations.
Crow’s move is a protest against Musk’s influence in government and Trump’s efforts to defund public media.
Who would buy a Tesla now, especially a used one.
For the MAGA heads who still like Musk, a Tesla does not roll coal enough. For those who would buy an EV, Tesla is a burned brand.
This binary view is neat and tidy but wrong. There are a lot of enthusiasts for whom a Tesla is still a desirable car both for capabilities as well as status. I would not be surprised to see its sales keep dropping, but reports of its death are all gonna be premature.
As far as a used Tesla, once we agree that a market for Teslas still exists, then that’s all dependent on the price.
Hmmm not sure, demnd has already dropped dramatically. As I understand it, vurrent sales levels would desimate the company, let alobe justify the hyper inflated stock
Any further drop in sales will just accelerte the crash
Partly true. Demand will persist but had already changed drastically. EV/fast car enthusiast niche now has much more exciting alternatives, like used porsche macans or BMW i4s. The people who don’t care what they drive as long as its cheap is the future market of Tesla, and they’ll easily survive the drop in their profit margins. After all, the Model 3/Y were designed to be <$30K cars (AFAIR they cost like $23K to make?!).
The first signs of Musk being a bit fraudulent is how he marketed “full self-driving” in the meantime, the transition to “vision-only” (i.e., removal of ultrasonic sensors) really sealed the fate of FSD but is also totally on brand for musk: the willingness to compromise safety further by removing sensor redundancy to maximize profits.
I know people like to harp on the self-driving promises, but the technology not fraud at all, except for the promises of how soon it will be self-driving. The early adopters especially must feel taken advantage of, paying for lifetime self driving that was only for as long as they owned the car and never appeared.
Anyhow, I still think it’s a valid approach to attempt. We don’t know what approach will succeed until one does, and Teslas approach does have advantages. Cameras are cheap sensors now, that can easily blend as part of a car, and humans do succeed in driving based only on sight. Now it’s a software problem - will we be able to create an ai that can drive? I don’t know, but I don’t see other approaches doing any better, and that’s with much more expensive and ugly hardware.
Until someone succeeds in creating a self-driving vehicle, I’m encouraged that we’re not all jumping into the same hole that may or may not succeed. Let them try something different, and we have a better chance of something working
We couldn’t disagree more.:D
I know people like to harp on the self-driving promises…
“FSD” almost got me into a major accident. It had a tendency to ride in cars’ blind spots and when someone cut me off I didn’t only make an evasive maneuver but also fight “FSD” which locked the steering and did not brake.
…the technology not fraud at all, except for the promises of how soon it will be self-driving.
So the “idea of the technology” is not fraud, only the presentation, the selling, and the delivery of it. So like everything that is currently available:D
Cameras are cheap sensors now
You know what else are cheap sensors. Actual sensors. FFS they had a >$20K profit margin on each car but they saved $100 on sensors
and humans do succeed in driving based only on sight.
This is so disturbingly incorrect. We rely a LOT on our hearing, our vibration sense, our proprioception too. Have you tried driving with earplugs? It’s pretty dangerous
Now it’s a software problem - will we be able to create an ai that can drive?
It’s a safety issue. For any safety-critical system you apply redundancy.
I don’t know, but I don’t see other approaches doing any better, and that’s with much more expensive and ugly hardware.
Mercedes and GM have much better autonomous driving systems than Tesla, they just don’t market it as “”“FULL self-driving”“”. The fact that you’re unaware shows how incredibly effective tesla’s misleading marketing had been.
we’re not all jumping into the same hole that may or may not succeed.
It will succeed, but eliminating safety measures in half-baked technology will claim lives. And nowhere did I say self-driving can’t work, I’m saying that it won’t work within the product’s lifetime and eliminating redundant sensor data will make the process a lot more unsafe.
Let them try something different, and we have a better chance of something working
Again other companies are already ahead of tesla without the bullshitting involved.
OP: Who would
That’s a question, not a binary view. You’ve made a strawman attack, intended or not.
For the MAGA heads who still like Musk, a Tesla does not roll coal enough. For those who would buy an EV, Tesla is a burned brand.
You’re reframing a generalized one to many statement as a literal one to all statement. OP isn’t attempting to claim that no one would possibly buy a Tesla, But that the primary sources of ownership in the market are both equally uninterested in purchasing.
There are obviously still people taking ownership of Cybertrucks even now.
As far as a used Tesla, once we agree that a market for Teslas still exists, then that’s all dependent on the price.
Moving those goal posts on out there are we? You made a straw man that OP said 0 market, and now you’re 'proving that argument you made wrong, and are going to slide out the argument you made yourself that there is a market therefore you’re right.
then that’s all dependent on the price.
What happens when the market for a given price fails to match the cost to produce something?
The only thing that will save the company in the medium term would be for him to divest from it and leave it alone, or funnel tax money from government contracts to keep it floating.
They are the most undesirable manufacturer in the US by a long shot right now.
reddit moment
We’ll see, if he comes back and cherry pics a single argument. ;)
Yes please. I’m having a tough time with this because I still find Tesla by far the most compelling vehicle available to me, SpaceX dominates space travel as the future implemented now, and StarLink is desperately needed for all those people out of fiber coverage. There’s really no competition. I was even a Musk fan when he spoke of technologies at these visioneering companies and where they were headed.
But then people started hanging on his every word, every tweet a meme, every word worshipped, and I don’t know wtf happened to him, he left his lane, he left the pavement and jumped into a pit. Was he always this person and it took a while to become public, or did something happen with the idolizing, the hero worship, the obscene amount of money? I can’t support pretty much anything the guy has said for the last several years, I can’t support his actions since he got distracted from those technologies, I can’t contribute any more to his obscene wealth as long as he keeps using it to remake the world to exploit, divide and endanger.
If he divests from Tesla and they drop that robot nonsense, they can become a leading technology company again, a successful car manufacturer with rapid growth, and they’d be a leading contender when I have to replace my current car. As it is, I hope this vehicle lasts long enough for other vehicles to catch up with the technology
Mmm tasty tasty boots
If it was within my budget I would buy a used Tesla. They’re pretty decent cars. The idea that your car should communicate your values or identity is Bourgeois ideology that I fully reject.
When you look at the number of recalls they are doing, I wonder where your “pretty decent” rating comes from.
Idk I haven’t been paying much attention I’ve only heard about the cyber truck specifically having issues
The idea that your car should communicate your values or identity is Bourgeois ideology that I fully reject.
There’s a huge difference between just giving in to Amazon’s convienience and using their platform, compared to supporting a company whose CEO is a literal nazi… HUGE difference
That’s not to say that buying from Amazon is anyway ethical, but at least they aren’t literal nazis
I mean I was talking about a used car sale, which doesn’t financially contribute to the company. It bothers me that people object to simply owning a Tesla (not buying) to the point that they feel like they have to get rid of one they already have. This mentality speaks to a sickness of identity which ties ones indicators of belonging to a commercial brand. I am not even talking about consumer choices like whether to shop at Amazon. I am talking about publicly visible choices like clothing, cars, watches. To suggest that these should communicate ones political alignment or disalignment is to buy into the idea of brand as identity.
While I mostly agree, if you’re a wealthy celebrity, whose image is critical to your success, then yes. Make a statement.
My vehicle is what I found compelling at the time, regardless of the failings of the ceo. I have no public image to maintain, nor wealth to switch vehicles on Twitter time. I also don’t see why I should have to switch based on someone else’s protest. My vehicle is what it is, and I do really like it
Are they decent? They have a high failure rate and as a used vehicle you’re likely going to need to drop 20k to replace the dying battery.
I don’t know, that might be true. Certainly at some price it becomes a good deal.
Within the budget of a used Tesla Model 3 are a lot of better cars. Jaguar I-Pace, Mustang Mach-E, Hyundai EV5, etc. pp.
I guess it depends on how much used Tesla are going for. If enough people want to get rid of them the price should keep falling.
Maybe, but who are you to mandate someone else’s choices? Each is a set of pros and cons, and different ones will resonate with different people. There is no objective better for a subjective choice. I could go down a list of places those other choices lag, and I’m sure you’ll dismiss them as unimportant. It’s fine that you find them unimportant but what gives you the right to dictate to anyone else?
Maybe, but who are you to mandate someone else’s choices?
Please point out the section where I did.
I could go down a list of places those other choices lag,
Please do, that’s relevant info for people currently seeking to buy an EV.
It’s fine that you find them unimportant but what gives you the right to dictate to anyone else?
99% of your text is you discussing against something I never wrote - Textbook straw man.
Word. I donated to my local NPR stations. Will do so again.
Fuck musk. Fuck trump. Fuck the republican traitor filth.
Great idea. Think I’ll donate to the local NPR now. BRB
Kick ass.
And delete xitter. Might want to think about getting off Instagram, too. Cuckerberg is no better.
Cuckerberg is a new one. I call him fuckerberg.
Fuckerburg sounds too metal and hardcore for him.
I’ve hated him for 10 years now. If it weren’t for their VR headsets I would delete it entirely.
Their vr headsets fucked the vr market and killed it in the name of short term profit. Great for the user to get a cheap headset. Bad for devs cause you have a mobile phone with head strap you somehow need to optimize your games to and submit to their walled garden bs.
Cuckerberg is no better
Really? Musk is busy right now purging minorities from government agencies. What exactly did Zuck did that makes it “no better” than that?
I agree, he’s not driving it like Musk, so not as bad, he’s just following the new government direction. He’s just a spineless sycophant, and he would switch opinions as soon as the government would change. Still, his changes to the meta apps have an even worse impact than Xitter, because those apps are actually used by a large part of the global population. DOGE’s impact of course is worse though.
He purged millions of minority votes too
I used to want a Tesla so bad. Now it just doesn’t seem right.
Now, every time I see a tesla, I assume it’s a white supremacist driving it.
What do you think when you see cars from VW, Benz, BMW, Ford (especially considering Henry Ford’s anti-Semitic views), GM (Opel), Fiat, or when you notice tires from Goodyear, Firestone, or Pirelli?
It’s worth noting that many big Japanese companies like Honda, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Yokohama, and Datsun (Nissan) also supported Imperial Japan during the war.
All of these companies had some level of involvement with the Nazis or the Axis powers in World War II.
As for Tesla, many owners bought their cars before all the controversies surrounding Elon Musk became mainstream. I get the criticism directed at him, and as a Tesla owner myself (I bought mine used before things got really wild), I’ve even thought about removing the Tesla logo from my car.
I’m just not sure if that viewpoint is entirely fair.
I regularly see the same three on the motorway, I appreciate selling a car has costs, but owning one of them also has costs.
It’s funny how successful elon musk has been in conning liberals.
Same… In the early 2010’s they seemed like a dream.
Today, if I got one for free I’d sell it. If I couldn’t sell it, I’d set it on fire. I don’t consort with Nazi’s.
What makes Rivian objectionable? I’m not arguing - I’m genuinely ignorant of any issue, at least morally or politically, with them.
You uh gonna say anything here about volkswagen?
Want mine…? 😞
The other car companies have pretty much caught up now anyway
They haven’t. In the USA. Unless you call the ICCU fiasco catching up, or the lame Mach-E charging curve. Not a Tesla fanboy but in the US if you live in the suburbs and have a long commute, and buy used, Tesla is really the only used option with any inventory that meets this use case.
The hacking scene just doesn’t feel mature enough yet for it to outweigh the virtues it sends.
Same but when the time came for a new car a couple years back and despite preferring a sedan, my partner and I decided to go with another manufacturer. At the time, Musk was still a POS but it was more because Tesla’s QA was questionable. Now that Musk is a full blown Nazi it gives me an excuse to swear off any company he profits from.
Same!
But if I had a house, I’d be saving up for a Rivian right now. Theyre much more inline with what I want as a product.
I don’t know her, but good for her. NPR is a valuable resource, but we should also do better in demanding their reporting quality to improve. They’ve been doing a lot of sanewashing, too.
She was a singer who got famous when she was featured on Kid Rock’s song Picture.
She was famous way before that.
You’re kidding right?
Everywhere I look I see ragebait
Them’s fightin’ words!
He’s Rick rolling, but your response is way better.
Haha I didn’t even check the URL preview. Damn that is a good Rick Roll strategy 😁
lol, people downvoting but that’s top notch.
I did click, so I see your point, but yeah, I also have to object to the rest.
I barely know who kid rock is, always some annoying person targetting teens or something: we’re not all in whatever demographic was targeted by that marketing. but Sheryl Crow is famous for her music, for real music, that I do listen to.
Brilliant execution.
deleted by creator
Sold my Tesla and don’t miss it at all. I can’t imagine still driving it now. Just wish I never purchased it in the first place but I honestly didn’t know what I was supporting at the time.
Yeah what did you replace it with? Are you back to birding Fossil fuels and fucking the planet just to say fuck you elon? Pretty counter productive if you did.
It is not about aligning yourself with anything, it is about doing the right thing for the right reasons for the benefit of our community and neighbors. Personally I wish she’d dismantle and sell it for scrap and donate those proceeds.
Never a good idea to partner with nazis over the long term.
I always liked her, now I know why.
She did a duet with Kid Rock. I am cautiously optimistic. Is she actually not a right winger anymore or is she just tired of cleaning rotten eggs off her car?
When was the duet? Because Kid Rock used to be significantly further left than he is now.
Kudos to Cheryl and I know several other Tesla that want to trade-in their cars because of Leon Hitler.
Kudos? She benefits financially from this little virtue signal.
First she’s going to pick up some new fans that will buy her music, plus the publicity also has monetary value to her. And secondly, because she donated the proceeds of the sale of the car to NPR, she gets to write off the donation from her taxes to benefit financially yet again. Nor does she need to worry about someone vandalizing her property, which would cost her money to repair.
Just another profitable day for a person with a $70 million net worth.
I wouldn’t want a Tesla even if someone gave me one for free.
I wouldn’t get a tesla at any price because I’m now stuck in a tesla ecosystem just like apple users are by and large stuck in the apple ecosystem.
I would take it, and then set it on fire in a public place.
All I wanna do is sell that car I got a feelin’ I’m not the only one.
She saved her self a lot of trouble from the crappy Tesla build quality.
I just want an electric car :( but the Tesla’s are too expensive.
I might end up buying Chinese cars
Hyundais are very good EVs
POP. ICCU calling.
domestically you can get a base 2025 chevy ev blazer for around $27k while the ev rebate lasts. 300+ mile range with decent fast charging. I was really looking forward to getting one in the next 2-3 years but then dondi mcshytegibbon got elected and is killing not just the ev tax credit but the grant money to build out a dc fast charging infrastructure too. I might have to look at the plugin hybrid market instead when I really want to go fully electric.
Domestically? But my country does not make cars :(
Where I’m from it’s stupid to make your primary vehicle 2WD. Too bad.
We really need small, efficient, 4wd trucks on the market.
Telos Truck, should launch later this year.
350 miles
0-60 3.5 seconds
5ft bed
Folds backseats so can fit 8ft sheets of plywood
Length of a mini cooper.
Think the 4wd 500hp model is like 46,000
46K… USD or CAD?
USD. The 2wd version starts at 34k. Believe Telos is out of California
I’m out lol. That’s too expensive.
100%
Do they not plow snow in Canada or what’s up?
We get a lot of snow (and ice) in Estonia too, but so far nobody I know has had problems because of 2WD. Except those living in the countryside if you get like half a meter of snow overnight and have to get through it somehow without plowing it first. But then you’re better off owning a tractor or having good relations with your tractor-owning neighbor.
It helps that winter tires are mandatory and studded winter tires are allowed between about October and April.
I live in a city in Canada where it’s too cold to snow a lot of the time and I agree with you that winter tires make a huge difference, but I love my AWD when there’s a big dump of snow or big ruts in the road. Guess it depends how well your roads are maintained.
Also extra non sequitur: have you played Disco Elysium? It’s made by some people from Estonia and it’s probably the best game I’ve ever played in my life.
Oh I love AWD too, but for the first several years of my driving career, I had FWD and RWD cars, never had any trouble even if roads were unplowed, unless there really was a freak snowstorm. Thing is, all roads get plowed here eventually, so it’s not like you’re going to have to drive through a week’s worth of snowfall. It’s one or two days at most.
On a daily basis, the most useful thing about AWD, really, is the ability to accelerate away much faster than everyone else when the light goes green. Then you won’t have tailgaters for a while. The most fun thing, however, is that drifting is somehow really different from RWD drifting.
As for Disco Elysium: I haven’t played it. I really wanted to play it, but I didn’t feel like pirating it and was broke when it came out. Working a dead-end job, etc. Now that the original creators have been driven out of the company, I don’t feel like paying for it, so I might pirate it after all, but now I have so little free time I still haven’t finished my first playthrough of Baldur’s Gate 3, which I started in August 2023.
I think I’ll download it, install it, start it up once just to see what it’s like, and then play it in a few months when I have more free time again. Might have to finally get a Steam Deck so I could play it in bed, as I already sit behind my computer screen for some 12-14 hours a day.
If you’re into Disco Elysium, you’ll be delighted to hear that executive producer Kaur Kender is a downright controversial figure. Started up writing really explicit and vulgar novels - controversial in their own right, but I don’t think he got in any legal trouble for that. It was just crime novels with sex scenes, detailed violence (IIRC), etc. But things got really heated when he wrote a novel involving CSAM. At no point did he condone it, nor were any children hurt, but he was censored for it. This really launched him into fame or infamy. I haven’t read the book, but to quote Wikipedia: The Finnish Pen described it as a “grotesque thriller” and an important book discussing taboos central to the entertainment industry, including death, serial murder, pornography, and pedophilia.
He was also acquitted for the CP charges, on the grounds of, well, free speech and the fact that no children were harmed and there was nothing graphic.
Around this time frame you could find him rapping with a bunch of other Estonian rappers, about legalizing weed, and the effect of fentanyl on our society. Because apparently it’s almost easier to get fentanyl than weed and it’s fucking a lot of people up - something I have no experience with personally.
Books from him that you might want to read: Independence day, Comeback. But no idea if you can even find them in English at this point.
Holy shit that is all super interesting! I’m interested to know what he actually wrote, because i do find really often when people write about real experiences regarding things of that ilk, there are others with ulterior motives that use the guise of “protecting children” to quash communication of those experiences.
An example that comes to mind in North America is a lot of red states banning Breakfast of Champions by Kurt Vonnegut for sexually explicit content, which if you’ve read Breakfast of Champions, you’d recognize that it’s a misrepresentation of the content of that book, and that that book deserves a far more nuanced discussion. I’m assuming this will likely be a similar situation.
As for weed, as a Canadian, hell yeah to legalization, and also as a Canadian who has lost friends to fentanyl, fuck fentanyl. You’ve totally given me a new rabbit hole to jump down, so thank you!
I live in a city and my street is not plowed, nor many side streets. Also RWD vehicles slide out when they lose traction, unlike FWD which it’s less likely.
RWD vehicles are less likely to give you understeer, however. Which is easier to cope with than oversteer, but technically harder to recover from.
Subaru has an electric vehicle if I’m not mistaken, expensive as subarus go, but likely high quality.
As far as canadian brands go, I can’t think of anything
I just had to comment and tell you I laughed really hard at “dondi mcshytegibbon”
How do you manage that when the base list price starts at $44k? Model 3 base price is $35k and both qualify for federal incentive, so it seems a stretch to overcome that. Are you going for one of the formerly trash ones with bad software!
There are so many companies now dumping private capital into EV fast charging. IONNA alone is expected to build out 30,000 DC fast charging stations over the next 5 years. Its funded by basically all the major automakers in N America (except Toyota of course).
Except then you have a Chevy.
Their EVs are pretty solid, I’ve been driving one for 5 years and its been great.
Way cheaper if you buy a used one too
We bought a chevy bolt and equinox. You can pick up a used bolt these days for around $10k. Equinoxes are as low as $35k before incentives…
