I don’t like smartphones. I use a dumbphone.
But this is a wonderful initiative.
Great idea, but will never take down here in south America
People know that all these import parts and replacements are not exactly easy to pay for, even less to find. They need a cheap reliable phone that will at least handle day to day for years
I mean come on, the average cellphone user here is still using the equivalent of a Moto G2 or Samsung J2 and thats stretching it.
An S8 is still seen like luxury in here. And I’m not even going into iphones.
2nd hand pixels beats any midrange phone at the same price. Sent some with GOS on them to a friend in Nicaragua. Quite instantly he broke the screen , bought new screen on ebay that shipped directly to bumfuck nowhere on milestone address. But yea with fairphone I understand the issue
The hardware is good and I like the idea in principle but Fairphone’s support and software QA is dreadful and you need to hope you never need the former because of problems with the latter. My FP5 was bricked by an update they pushed out and after six weeks of trying to get a solution from their support (four weeks of which they didn’t respond at all) I ended up claiming on insurance and buying a Pixel. According to the forums this problem is far from unique to me.
I’ve been running FP4 for about 2 years now. the software bug fix cycle leaves something to be desired.
for example, the first 16 months of my ownership had every single phone call screaming at me. I mean, the volume was loud enough it was quieter than the speaker phone.
the did eventually fix that bug, but not two months later there’s a bug that breaks my running processes button(square at the bottom). as of right now there’s no fix other than using the OEM shitty launcher. so, 5-10 times a day I have to go to settings > apps > default apps > launcher > bliss launcher > running apps > settings > launchers > my launcher > close what I just had to use > go back to what I was just doing.
I enjoy the phone, don’t get me wrong. I just wish they performed better software testing on their own hardware.
I got the phone for the ethics, reparability, and privacy. I’ll never go back.
Get on LineageOS.
The headphone jack user to lemmy user ratio is apparently nearly 1:1
Yeah, Lemmy is full of people stuck in their way and insisting older tech is better because they refuse to update
Sometimes older tech is better. I have both Bluetooth and wired headphones, and I prefer the wired ones. In fact, I’m wearing wired headphones right now, because my laptop has a jack. I can’t do that on my phone, because my phone doesn’t have a jack (and I refuse to use a dongle), so I use inferior Bluetooth headphones.
I would much rather have a slightly larger phone with worse water proofing if it means I can have a headphone jack. I have never had an issue with water ingress, or with a slightly thick phone, but I have had an issue w/ my Bluetooth headphones dying and not being able to plug in my wired headphones. In fact, my Bluetooth headphones have the option for a wire, so I just need to plug in a cable to keep listening if the batteries die (fairly often when traveling).
but I have had an issue w/ my Bluetooth headphones dying and not being able to plug in my wired headphones
and I refuse to use a dongle
Sounds like your problem was self-made. I use wired headphones flawlessly without the 3.5mm jack and reap all the benefits of both worlds, because the older tech isnt actually superior
Shame there is no Graphene OS support for it
The biggest downside of Fairphone IMO is that they don’t maintain their hardware support in LineageOS and for the retail product then branch development off, add a bit of custom branding and adapt whatever Google requires these days. It would greatly improve custom ROM support in general.
Graphene isn’t the best choice for everything. It doesn’t have good backup solutions nor device to device backup or anything solid for complete snapshots and when restoring your so called backups you’ll realize what all it truly lacks.
It’s hardened and has a lot of security and privacy features but none of that matters if your opsec is bad, or it’s feature set doesn’t match your threat model. I am not knocking it at all. It just isn’t the white knight for every case.
What’s wrong with Seedvault?
Seedvault works, I’ve restored from backups multiple times.
However there are still many parts of overall data that aren’t fully backed up.
Certain app data doesn’t get saved.
Settings are but not in entirety requiring manual rechecks of all settings and reconfiguration if needed. Which saves no time because then you cannot trust it fully for what was and was not altered meaning you then must asses everything which took away the total value, and adds a layer of distrust.
Profiles must be backed up individually which creates a giant hassle to restore/maintain consistent backups, which also requires different drives for each profile to be recognized correctly.
App lists are impartial requiring a wrote down list or some form of rememberance that’s not reliant on the backup list of installed apps.
I can go on with more its late in my time zone and I have to sleep so. It’s a good project and has merit. It is just not where it should be to really be useful at scale. I am aware of the experimental setting to create a more comprehensive backup. Even with it checked on the backups are not complete. Thus the use of Graphene while a great project has definite major flaws. If they implement device to device backups it would be a game changer. Not high up on their list of to dos though.
Thanks for the info. I have not really tested Seedvault myself so this is all good to know.
Ironically, one of the main reasons I switched to GrapheneOS was because Google’s backups were so frustrating and I was hoping Seedvault would be more comprehensive.
Seedvault worked fine for me when I moved phones last year.
I agree. Seedvault works but if you really use the project and its features as intended you’ll see problems I listed above which is not complete I’m just tired there are plenty more.
You’ll start to see the problems and the lack of value add from graphene. I’d feel much safer on a Linux machine and correct backups, under most threat models and opsecs, even without all the advanced security features than stuck locked into graphene as a half baked project. Which is saying something, and why I said it depends on your opsec and threat model I wasn’t bashing the project it just is not the end all be all right now.
The year of Linux is upon us. Soonish*
Its had more dev time across the board which is why I would choose it first and foremost. What it lacks in certain features its fundamentally more complete. Regardless of distro mostly.
Agreed.
That said, it would be awesome to have an alternative to Pixel devices if you do want GrapheneOS.
The project has sort of silo’d itself into security which is only one part of the equation. Rather than overall completeness, functionality, maintainability. It’s lacking major fundamental feature sets. Thus its more of a tails meets whonix/Qubes right now not a all in one bow wrapped package to save the day for its consumer base. Many many other issues/bugs I didnt list. Perhaps I’ll add more tomorrow. If everyone wants.
And that’s exactly what it should be IMO. I prefer a project with narrow goals to one that does everything, but poorly.
If I want backups, I can use something like Syncthing. When moving to a new device, I prefer to install everything from scratch because I generally don’t use most of the apps I have anyway. I don’t put anything critical on it, so why would I need to restore from a snapshot?
If you want those features, it’s not the ROM for you.
I just want a simple device with a long support cycle and no spyware, and GrapheneOS delivers. I have Google Play Services on a sperate profile, and my main profile is completely free of that crap. I want a Linux phone, but every phone has serious limitations, like missing audio, sketchy calls, or completely broken camera. GrapheneOS is the closest experience I have to that.
And it doesn’t support US bands for TMobile
Was thinking the same thing. Not Graphenes fault though but a failing of OEMs to provide what’s necessary.
no other manufacturer than google ever will have graphnene os support. their requirements cannot be met unless you are a tech gian, and with exceptionally good connections to the hardware manufacturers
You could always go for /e/os though
Edit: Didn’t know it was this bad…
/e/os is a security dumpster fire. It’s even worse than stock Android. Stay away from it.
Can you explain?
Every other version of Android gets security updates out within a couple weeks of release at most.
/e/OS users are lucky if they get them within a couple months.
Thanks for the answer. How does it compare against other Android forks in terms of security update speed?
Also, isn’t Fairphone once also criticised for falling behind on Android security updates or was I misremembering this?
Also correct, though I am not particularly familiar with Fairphone. Seems like they are down to bimonthly updates, if that.
*We are including two months of security patching in a bi-monthly maintenance release.
No offense, but that’s not what a security dumpster fire is. Security updates are important, of course, but they are also not the biggest deal.
In fact, I bet that the vast majority of users (on Android or otherwise) are lagging way behind in updates anyway.
So an OS that boasts about the “privacy” it offers… Doesn’t need routine and consistent security updates?
Sure thing bud, keep going on like you know what you’re talking about.
Generally speaking privacy and security are related but not really linked to each other. Google services might be very secure, but a privacy nightmare for example. In this particular case, even more, because the chances that using a “googled” phone will mean data collection (I.e. privacy issues) are almost certain, while the risks we are talking about are much more niche and - as I elaborated on another comment - in my opinion not really in most people threat model.
I would like to hear your perspective instead, because I am not really into using authority arguments, but as a security engineer I believe to at least understand well the issue with security updates, vulnerabilities and exploits. So yes, I do think to know what I am talking about.
That is not the only issue, it’s just one of the more major ones that shouldn’t be dismissed like it’s nothing. Another major one is the unlocked bootloader. You can take a look at all the Android ROMS here.
I think people should treat carefully when changing the OS of a mobile device. Changing your OS to something less secure just because you want to shove it to Google and Apple is not enough to warrant it. Better to stay with something safe that you know than with something insecure like /e/OS.
Luckily we have Graphene so you can actually switch to a more secure and private OS that is not made by an American corporation hungry for data.
I am not dismissing it, I am saying that is not as big as you make it to be. Most users lag behind in updates anyway, besides using minimal and trusted applications, the outside exposure to exploitation is relatively small, for a device without a public address. I am not the one APTs are going to use the SMS no-click 0-day against.
Similarly for the bootloader issue. The kind of attacks mitigated by this are not in most people threat models. They just are not. As someone else wrote, it’s possible to relock the bootloader anyway with official builds (such as my FP3). But anyway, even for myself the chance that my phone gets modified by physical access without my knowledge is a fraction of a fraction compared to the chance that someone will snatch the phone in my hand while unlocked, for example (a recent pattern).
If these two issues are what prompts you to call a “security dumpster fire”, I would say we at least have very different risk perceptions.
If they just didn’t drop the headphone jack.
How else would they push their mediocre reviewed Bluetooth headsets and ear buds?
Ah, that’s a dealbreaker for me
my phone has a headphone jack, my phone before that had a headphone jack. Wanna guess how often I used it? Zero because I have decent bluetooth headphones
I use my backup headphones when my Bluetooth headset has run out of battery
I use mine. Bluetooth is great and all, but it’s still not the same quality as a hard-line. And they also run out of batteries.
Okay? You’re not the one asking for a headphone jack tho??? Pointless comment.
my phone has a headphone jack, my phone before that had a headphone jack. Wanna guess how often I used it? Zero because I have decent bluetooth headphones
That’s just like your opinion man
I used mine all the time because I hate using bluetooth even though I have expensive bluetooth headphones, I have now cancelled you out
Ok I use my wired headphones
I just have a dap that can receive bluetooth. More battery life, drives literally anything to very loud, 4.4mm out and can hold it’s own music library and play it without eating phones battery or memory.
My decent Bluetooth headphones have the option to plug in a headphone cable to use them wired. I use it occasionally so I can reduce audio latency, which can be useful with gaming…and essential with rhythm games.
My last phone had a headphone jack. Wanna guess how often I used it? All the time! And that was despite having decent Bluetooth headphones.
I loved wearing my cans when mowing the lawn because it cut down on the noise, and I also used them when laying in bed since they had much better audio. I would use my Bluetooth headphones the rest of the time because they were more convenient.
My new phone doesn’t have headphone jack, and I’m super bummed.
So now you still do the exact same things but with a little dongle, right?
USB-C to headphone jack dongles suck. You lose them easily, you can’t charge your phone if they’re connected and if you disconnect your headphones the device still behaves as if they’re plugged in. It’s so much less convenient and on the other hand there’s just no downside to having a dedicated headphone jack, so I still don’t get why they’re no longer including them.
As well as all your points (which I 100% agree with), my other issue with these dongles is simply that they stick out way more. If I buy a pair of headphones with an angled connector, I can plug them in and wrap the wire a little bit and then when the phone’s in my pocket, the wire takes up basically no space and doesn’t get smushed about by my leg.
With a dongle, I need an extra couple inches of vertical space, and because the wire/connectors are sticking directly out the phone, they get bent all over the place. Absolutely crap design. Yes 90 degree USB-C to headphone jacks exist but they take up way more space than just a headphone jack.
You lose them easily
Just leave them connected to the headphones.
you can’t charge your phone if they’re connected
Dongles with an additional usb port exist.
if you disconnect your headphones the device still behaves as if they’re plugged in.
Again, leave the dongle connected to the headphones, not the phone.
It’s so much less convenient
It is less convenient, but I’d argue not by all that much. More importantly it’s not any less convenient for the vast majority who are already only using Bluetooth.
there’s just no downside to having a dedicated headphone jack
-
It’s an additional, and to most people superfluous, point for water ingress. Water damage is the most common type of damage in phones.
-
It takes up space which could be utilised otherwise, like with a slightly larger battery or larger speakers or camera modules.
-
It’s an additional part which needs to be manufactured, stocked, installed and purchased. Extra cost which only benefits a few. This is especially important to Fairphone in particular because they don’t use off-the-shelf components and promise to supply replacement parts pretty much indefinitely. I.e. Fairphone would have to design a custom module and then have that module in stock and manufactured specifically for them for the lifetime of each of their devices. That’s not a trivial expense.
-
I’m going to lose that dongle. You say further down that I can just leave them connected, but I use my headphones with more than my phone (laptop, desktop), and those other devices have a headphone jack. Leaving it plugged in to my phone sucks too, for obvious reasons.
I don’t care about water ingress. I’m happy to give up water resistance and have a slightly thicker phone if it means I get a headphone jack, bonus points if it’s easier to open the phone for repairs.
Yup. If anything, they should add a second USB-C connector. Much more versatile and you can still charge your phone if one of them dies.
These flaky, but simultaneously bulky headphone connectors need to die. They’re inferior in pretty much every way imaginable.
Every day the bait gets lower and lower effort
Quickly checking if you’re an actual human or just a bot I came across this comment of yours:
I have blocked 264 users, 9 communities and 4 instances and it’s made Lemmy much better for me toxicity wise. Whenever a debate gets toxic or someone starts just insulting or discussing in bad faith or I just get a bad vibe from them - I block.
Guess I’ll take your advice then.
Boo this man!
…are they booing me, or are they booing headphones?
You. They’re booing you.
Help me, Smithers!
😔
This is fine if you don’t care about having the best audio quality and lowest latency possible.
not just that. with a jack, you can use your phone as a perfect mic for your PC. its also better in terms of privacy as you don’t blast “IM HERE” signals that every other shop has a tracking device for logging them. I would guess majority of bluetooth audio devices don’t even support mac address randomization
I would guess majority of bluetooth audio devices don’t even support mac address randomization
Wouldn’t that be a nightmare for pairing? The device wakes and tries to connect to the last device it was paired to, only to find unknown vendors
mac randomization is a defined thing in the BLE standard (afaik bluetooth classic does not have it, but maybe that changed in BT 5.1?). It’s not truly random, it involves cryptography so that paired devices can recognize each other in the end
I feel like latency only matters if you’re realtime gaming. In any other situation the video just syncs to the audio.
As for quality AptX-HD is decent for low bitrates even at 24-bit, and LDAC remains excellent for anything higher.
Unless you’re listening to high-res FLAC (in which case, god help your earphone impedance when listening to normal songs), I doubt the loss is audible
Good for you.
Wanna know how many times I played a piano in the past 20 years?
Zero. Clearly they shouldn’t exist.
No, but maybe you should re-gift it to someone who does…
I really wish this was available in the US. I’ve found myself able to hang on to devices longer and longer. So this would be perfect. I’m only charging my battery to 80% and discharging it to 30% before charging it again just to prolong the life of the battery because that’s the first thing that dies on most devices. Having a user replaceable battery again would be an absolute godsend.
This is a 50% DoD and is considered best possible practice to prevent lithium-ion dendrite formation.
Updoot for good advice.
Proof:
If you don’t mind clarifying, what do you mean by DoD?
Depth of Discharge, sorry – 0 to 100 would be a 100% depth (the entire battery), 30 to 80 is 50%.
What kind of software creates this plot?
Looks like AccuBattery.
The really nice thing is that the larger phone batteries get the more you get to use at 50% depth of discharge. My phone is 5,000 mAh and so I get to use 2,500 mAh of it. Once average phones start getting 5,500 mAh, that will mean I will be able to use 2,750 mAh. 250mAh may not sound like a lot, but it can go a decently long way.
This is a 50% DoD and is considered best possible practice to prevent lithium-ion dendrite formation.
Not entirely true. “Best possible” would be left plugged in and charged to 50%. Next best would be 49-51%. Then 48-52% and so on.
Also it’s not that difficult or expensive to swap a battery and not really worth the stress, in my opinion.
I’m interested in this one also. I like the look of it. Currently a long-time Pixel user, but I’m open to other options. It will take a truly good camera to pull me away, though.
Sometimes last year Marquez Brownlee (I think it was him, I don’t think it was Dave2D) was conducting a blind test among his audience which Photos they thought looked best. Some top brands were jumping up and down from one test scenario to another but the Fairphone ended up in the midfield constantly. True, that’s not a glowing recommendation of the camera but at least an insurance that one doesn’t get utter trash either.
Do you recall which ones scored the highest?
iirc, it’s typically the pixel a series, normal pixel series, the most expensive iPhone, and the Samsung flagship (or smth like that)
The Pixels tend to give really punchy contrast which a lot of people like
Do you happen to know whether this was before or after the camera update? The camera has been noticeably improved at some point.
That’s honestly one thing I’m really glad about. I’m legally blind, so pictures don’t honestly matter that much to me, and so I could really give a fuck less what the camera looks like as long as it functions well enough to act as a magnifier for me to read small print on things occasionally.
Like if I go pick up one of those frozen pizzas from the store and I need to read the box to know what temperature to set the oven to and how long to put it in. I use the camera to just zoom in on the print and read it and then leave the camera.
Yeah, same here honestly. For real, I wish it was available in the US too
Are you using something to automate that? If so what? Does it require root?
Several Android manufacturers have their own settings in the OS for battery longevity (automatic schedule based smart charging, or charging limits)
Don’t think it’s native in Android. Charging limits need support in the charging controller chip, plus driver support in the OS.
So my device settings have the functionality built in to stop charging automatically when the battery hits a certain percentage. And so I have set it to stop charging automatically at 81%. I also use BatteryBot Pro from F-Droid to alert me when the battery rises above 80% or drops below 30%
Murena does ship them to the USA, but with /e/OS preinstalled, which is great if you’re into privacy and degoogling. I don’t know how it works with US carriers though. Feel free to ask them on their forum, community.e.foundation
/e/OS doesnt interest me because its far to iphone(esk) in design. Though i might be able to flash LineageOS instead. I also want nothing to do with Google Play Services or even Micro-G. I even think Micro-G is too much of a compromise and won’t use it. If an app won’t run because Google Play Services doesn’t exist, then I don’t run that app. If I don’t get notifications because Google Play Services doesn’t exist, then I don’t get notifications. So be it.
its far to iphone(esk) in design
It’s far too iPhone-esque in design
“It’s” has the apostrophe because it’s “it” + "is
“too” has two o’s when there’s an excess of something. More stuff = more o’s!
“esque” is uh…just how it’s spelt
iPhone capitalization is just their branding.
I only commented to help with “esque”, but saw other things I could help with. Knowledge is power!
It’s pretty open hardware I’m sure it would be very easy to flash it to Fairphone’s OS
There’s other phones with user replaceable batteries. I looked it up a month or so ago. They’re not as ethical as fairphone, but still better than my drawer of working phones with dead batteries.
Phones like the Galaxy Active which have terrible hardware to make them entirely unappealing outside of that one crucial feature. They do this on purpose.
That’s cool. Let me know when it gets support for GrapheneOS and finds it’s headphone jack again.
Big red flag:
Doesn’t that basically equate to “yep, this is an android phone?”
Yup. My current one is dying and I’m using it almost always wired to a charger or battery. I don’t care how badly they try to waste my battery, I’m not buying a new Android phone ever. If this one dies, I’m prepared to not use a phone until there’s a reasonably priced Linux phone.
Just replace the battery then. Most phone shops have the ability and tools to do it in about an hour to 3 hours.
I’m afraid. Lol phones with non replaceable batteries suck.
What a non sequitur.
I’d just install another OS to begin with. But again, I’d reaaally like it to be GrapheneOS. And then again, Pixels also come with all that crap (and much more) enabled by default.
I hope Graphene eventually shifts to support the fairphones. Doubtful, but it’d be perfect
Hows their secure boot?
No, it’s the other way around. Fairphone needs to implement the things Graphene requires.
Por que no los dos?
GrapheneOS can’t add hardware features to an existing phone. That’s why no los dos.
I would totally be interested if they had solid Linux support, such as postmarketOS or mobian. Those systems continue to get updates long after most Android devices stop supplying updates, so it would fit really well with a repairable phone. It shouldn’t be the default, but it would be awesome if they helped the Linux phone community make it the best supported hardware for the various Linux phone projects.
According to the postmarketOS wiki, audio is completely broken, so you have to use Bluetooth. That kind of sucks.
I have the fairphone 4 and have had no issues. As long as a fairphone exists I don’t see any reason I should switch.
Have you had to replace any parts yet?
I had to replace parts on my FP5. It fell on very bad asphalt at speed whilst cycling in a foreign country. The glass on the camera modules scattered. Display protector broke and the case got some good damage. I was instantly calmed realising it is a FairPhone and knowing I could order replacement parts.
Repairs were trivial and it feels good to have created just a tiny amount of e-waste instead of a large amount. The black aluminium case has some war wounds (scratches) reminding me of the trip.
Knowing it’s so easy to repair, do you think it’s worth bothering with a case and/or screen protector?
If you hate cases so much, sure. But why create e waste and waste your money when you can avoid that by using a case?
I don’t bother with a case for this reason, haven’t broken anything so far. Just replaced the battery a couple times.
Do you use their OS?
This would’ve been my new phone if it had a headphone jack.
I’m waiting on a Framework Phone.
I wish importing phones were an option for my country, but no. Even if I secured a way to bring it here, it takes 1000 dollars just to register its IMEI to use here.
Şu an yurtdışından telefon getirtecek olsam IMEI değiştirir geçerdim. iPhone için mümkün olmayabilir. Bu hale getirenler utansın.
Bring back the headphone jack
The lack of an FM radio and headphone jack make it unusable for me.
Are there phones available these days with both of these things?
Yes, a quick search on GSM Arena shows 189 phones with a radio and headphone jack. That’s just phones from the last year.
Interesting, I very rarely see headphone jacks and had noe clue that FM radio in phones was a thing still. Nice resource, bookmarking that for later!
Yes
yes, even some that never mention the radio have one (n10 5g us model).
