I have never understood war. Why a country want to attack another country. To me is it like I am free to move there so I have no need to attack them. You disagree, just walk away. They have resources? Stealing is not allowed so you can’t do that. You dont own the whole world. No one will. War only leads to people die. No one should be happy about that. Yes, I cannot fight in a war. I would be a coward and flee to a better place.
Think of foreign policy as a ladder, and you are the person in charge of your country (or at least their foreign relations). Each rung is a new action you can take to influence the behavior of other countries.
The first step is formal communications. That’s easy, you’re probably on that step with just about every other nation. The next few rings are all other friendly diplomatic steps, things like opening embassies, making trade agreements, non-aggression pacts, etc.
Now let’s say a neighboring country is doing something you don’t like. Your nation’s grievance with them will fall into one of a few broad categories: they are a threat to your security, they are a threat to your interests, or they are a threat to your honor (meaning your international reputation). Whatever the reason, your job is to change their behavior and none of the previous steps on the ladder have worked, so now you climb higher.
The next rungs are less friendly, but are still diplomatic. These are things like denouncements, cessation of trade, tariffs, and sanctions. At the very top of this set of rungs, you close your embassy and demand they close theirs. You break off most communication. Finally, you tell the whole world why they have wronged you.
Now you’ve done everything you can diplomatically, but their behavior is still a threat to your security, interest, or honor. How do you change their behavior? There are more rungs on the ladder.
Going all the way back to Sun Tzu, generals have known that their job was to take over when the diplomats failed. This doesn’t mean that total war is immediate or inevitable. The military could conduct raids, surgical strikes, or enforce an embargo. Warfare is simply the top rungs of the ladder of foreign policy. Some nations climb it more quickly or willingly than others, but war exists on the same spectrum as diplomacy.
I’m no politologist or military strategist, but I’m pretty sure a lot of wars (not all of them) are started so that a nation’s government can get better control over their own population. If the state can declare an emergency situation, they can use it to justify cracking down on political dissidents, invasive surveillance, restrincting freedom of speech, etc in the eyes of the public. It can also be used to ramp up nationalism, which works in the ruling class’ favour. Pretty sure this is at least part of the reason behind putin and nettanyahu stirring shit up right now.
Anybody ever play Advanced Wars?
I loved that game as a kid. But as I’ve gotten older, it’s really sad to watch my CO be this kid with something to prove sending people out to die because Yay Kaboom Wippee!
Why don’t presidents fight in wars? Why do they always send the poor?
Bc people are so stupid, they believe in nationalism and are easy to manipulate
Zelensky has done a fine job getting directly involved, imo.
Getting directly involved in publicity photo shoots, that is.
Oh now that’s a throwback!
There are definitely some wars I’d much rather were just MMA death fights between the PM’s and presidents.
And others where I’m glad they aren’t, because the country whose victory would be best for the common good is led by someone who would not win a physical fight.
Hawkeye: War isn’t Hell. War is war, and Hell is Hell. And of the two, war is a lot worse.
Father Mulcahy: How do you figure that, Hawkeye?
Hawkeye: Easy, Father. Tell me, who goes to Hell?
Father Mulcahy: Sinners, I believe.
Hawkeye: Exactly. There are no innocent bystanders in Hell. War is chock full of them — little kids, cripples, old ladies. In fact, except for some of the brass, almost everybody involved is an innocent bystander.
Relevant Futurama I think. https://youtu.be/fiG2HiXNIjs?si=0uLeNsQzrXasBg-0
I wish I could upvote this more, that show is amazing!
Best ever!
Alan Alda’s got a pretty good podcast now. I watched a lot of MASH reruns growing up. Feels strange that kids now don’t have the experience of watching a bunch of stuff that’s not made for them at all, just because that’s what’s on TV.
Best show, ever.
I don’t remember this happening in the show. Was it before they shot out kingpin’s eye or after?
“War is where the old and bitter fool the young and reckless into killing each other”
Why do they always send the poor?
Barbarisms by barbaras, with pointed heels
Why don’t presidents fight the war?
I saw a picture of George Washington leading troops on a crappy boat. Why isn’t Biden out on a crappy boat somewhere? Lol
Because he wasn’t president then. Eisenhower led troops as did Grant
George Washington did lead troops one time as president, with the secretary of the Treasury at his side.
There was a little revolt over taxes on whiskey and when he showed up they surrendered.
The joke was that Biden is really old.
Why wasn’t Trump? Why wasn’t Obama? Why wasn’t Bush? It’s hardly just Biden.
I wasn’t singling him out he is just the current president and I can’t imagine him in that position lol.
I like Joe.
Was Washington leading troops after he became president though?
Alexander the Great was the first over the wall when invading a city.
Edit: source
that’s almost certainly myth
Yea there’s no way the first person over a wall wouldn’t get immediately mercd by everyone on top who isn’t fighting anyone yet.
He was! He took an arrow to the lung and they thought he was dead!
Generals gathered in their masses. Just like witches at black masses.
Great question. See, a farmer can’t stay behind and command the state because he is a farmer. The heads of state and the elite cannot all perish in trenches because then all that would remain are farmers. Established heirarchy for organizational power was invented probably by whatever primates we evolved from, and is observed among even some other species of primate.
A country without farmers will perish, a country without “elites” will make do.
Our country was built on well educated farmers taking up positions of governance. We’d be fine.
Which country is that?
The US
Because they’re worth less, obviously!
i think the real indictment is how we treat people who refuse to participate and die for the profit of the already rich; the government treats them with imprisonment while the rest of us treat them like a coward for standing up for themselves in thoroughly fucked up system…
Yeah… That type of brainwashing is so commonplace now though. Just look at how the US is treating striking dock workers, people keep talking about how they make xxx,xxx and not how the ceos make xxx,xxx,xxx,xxx like it’s the workers being greedy… 🥲
Don’t “now” that shit; the US has always treated striking workers like shit, which is the reason workers need to strike in the first place.
You’re just a bundle of joy. Bet people like having you around at parties.
I’m actually a blast at parties, mostly because I don’t get into politics at a party unless some jackass is being loud with his bigotry.
I also know how to breathe fire, that’s usually a big hit
The keyboard warriors instantly became experts on labor negotiations /s, even though they seemingly haven’t had the elementary realization that demands are movable in a negotiation, and you don’t negotiate by saying “oh, I actually make quite enough money compared to poor workers in Alabama with no union representation and I love the current benefits thank you kindly, sir”.
That’s how you end up arguing whether any sick time is on the table and then the government steps in and says no sick time now back to work. Don’t ask for just any sick time. Ask for fucking 2 months of paid leave for all workers and a $300,000 salary.
During WWII in Britain, about 10% of the men drafted were sent down into the coal mines instead of being sent off to war. In addition to enduring the horrific conditions of the mines, they had to endure abuse for not fighting. For bonus points, the old-time miners would often haze these draftees by letting their elevator cages free-fall for a bit during their first trips down.
There were also the Order of the White Feather during WWI in the UK (and I’m sure other variations in other countries at the time). They were women who would walk around and try to shame young men into enlisting, or they would present a white feather to men who weren’t in uniform to highlight their “cowardice.”
Some of the men these women gave feathers to were on leave from the front lines, or even home after being discharged from some horrific injury sustained on the front. My personal favorite: article.
[…] none more so than Seaman George Samson who received a feather when he was on his way to a reception held in his honour to receive the Victoria Cross as a reward for his bravery at Gallipoli.
Especially amazing because it was pretty damn rare to still be alive to receive a Victoria Cross.
“war is people that know each other but don’t kill each other making people that don’t know each other, kill each other”
I can’t remember the author, but i love this old quote
Rich man’s war, poor man’s fight.
I don’t really understand this seemingly widespread notion - that is also represented in this comic - that nations “agree” to go to war.
That is not really how it works most of the time, there is usually an aggressor and a victim. It is usually not two powerful leaders butchering their own country’s population, but rather one powerful leader butchering two countries’ population.
I know it’s not the point of this comic, but this really, really annoys me.
I think WW1 was kind of like the comic. It was a bunch of squabbling family members who got into a pissing match and then sent their citizens to die. It never would have happened if Gramma Vicky had still been alive!
Sure, but this comic wasn’t made 100 years ago. It reeks of that “they should BOTH stop fighting!” rhetoric, that only benefits aggressors.
The world used to be more like the comic. Now it’s more unilateral.
But the one important detail never changes.
It’s a pretty stupid comic actually. The conversation usually goes more along the lines of one nation demanding territory from the other, and the other telling the first to fuck right off.
I in general agree with what you wrote, but the Israel/Iran brinkmanship does feel a bit like the portrayal in this comic at times. So the comic seems relevant to recent events.
Oh yes, the Middle East is pretty much the reason for my “usually”s and “mostly”s there.
Could someone bring me up to speed on the Middle East? Are they not getting along over there?
You could say that - they have been up to a few squabbles as of late, kerfuffles even.
I am sure it is nothing too serious, it will be over as quickly as it started and the region will soon be as peaceful as always.
Ironically, the modern Middle East is almost entirely a creation of WWI and its immediate aftermath when the Ottoman Empire was carved up by the victorious Allies.
I think your premise is wrong. It’s more plausible that because war is beneficial for the 1 percent, that this song and dance of political theater is purely to keep you and I entertained and in line.
Or we could go with your idea that Putin thought it was a good idea to piss off the most powerful nations because he wanted to conquer some land. He was like A) I could peacefully hang out on my massive yacht or B) become enemies with a country that is notorious for stealth drone strikes.
War is beneficial for the 1% and there is no doubt about it. That doesn’t change anything that I wrote, and it’s not at all incompatible with Putin being an aggressor and a stupid asshat.
As someone put it: dictatorship is a job with amazing benefits, but a terrible retirement plan. Putin can never retire and chill on his yacht, he needed to be at war for his regime security.
He never meant to piss off the most powerful bloc in the world, he thought he could just snatch Ukraine and get away with it with a little frown from the west, like he did with parts of it before (Crimea, Donetsk, Luhansk), like he did with Georgia (South Ossetia, Abkhazia). He miscalculated Ukraine’s response, and the west’s.
He is not the first dictator who believes his own bullshit about the rest of the world you know? Do you think Hitler wanted to go to total war with UK, France, USA and USSR all at once? Or do you think he was secretly in cahoots with Churchill, Roosevelt and Stalin to have a nice little war together to enrich their 1% and historians are conspiring to hide this?
That is not really how it works most of the time
That is indeed how it works most of the time
It’s loss, isn’t it?
It’s close, but no, the first panel has more than one person
It’s many losses
No, it’s just the one.
Kropp, on the other hand, is more philosophical. He reckons that all declarations of war ought to be made into a kind of festival, with entrance tickets and music, like they have at bullfights. Then the ministers and generals of the two countries would have to come into the ring, wearing boxing shorts, and armed with rubber truncheons, and have a go at each other. Whoever is left on his feet, his country is declared the winner. That would be simpler and fairer than things are out here, where the wrong people are fighting each other.
- All Quiet on the Western Front
Forget that. They need to face the same stakes that they’ve forced millions of other people to face. Deadly force. Put them through the same grueling conditions, and the cost of failure is death.
I assume Kropp was intentionally treating the leaders with more compassion than they treat their citizens.
So we should have a political system where the physically strongest get elected leader? Or would it be a elected position?
Current US election aside
It wouldn’t be a great system, but it would automatically have excluded the Toupee so it’s a better system than we have now.
It’s a good summary of “all quiet on the western front”.
It’s called the division of labor. You can’t have the guy in charge of running things get turned into Beefaroni in a foxhole.
Just get another guy charge then?
that would be bad, yes. but you could also make the argument that the guy in charge of things would be much less likely to initiate a war if he knew there was a chance he could get turned into beefaroni in a foxhole.
No but you can conscript their kids and require them to be on the Frontline. You can have a conscription program that cannot be bought out or excused. You can require a military referendum.
There are ways to deal with this problem.
Fucking stupid. Like the decision to go to war doesn’t weigh on the person and people having to make that decision.
Putin most certainly doesn’t give a fuck about anyone, not even Russians…
Agree, completely.
So much weight on their shoulders deciding to bomb a school or hospital next.
When the enemy’s base is a school or hospital, it’s sort of hard not to.
