Massive problems with this kind of statement. Dehumanization of any group shouldn’t be encouraged, it leads down a dangerous path.
Edit: “I thought they were a Nazi so I shot them.”
I’m not saying tolerate them, I’m saying dehumanization of any human isn’t acceptable. It’s kinda fucked that the reason y’all wanna dehumanize them is because they dehumanize others.
This kind of cancerous thinking made people stop advocating for even stronger secularism, because the US had a “good christian” in the white house, so it’s not religious fundamentalism that is the problem, but “fake christians” wanting to implement Project 2025.
No one is dehumanizing them. They are humans. They happen to be humans whose beliefs and actions are an active harm to society and a threat to a large portion of the global population. So they should be removed. They aren’t sub-human, they aren’t bring targeted for being less than, they aren’t being targeted because of race, ethnicity, orientation, religion, or anything like that. For society to grow and thrive they need to no longer be a part of society. How that happens is a judgment call, but it needs to happen.
I get what you’re saying, but stating that it is always acceptable kill a nazi no matter the situation is most definitely dehumanization. I’m not sure how you could twist it into anything else.
There are so many other ways to remove them from society that doesn’t include labeling someone as something and deciding it’s okay to kill them based on that label.
They labeled themselves. If someone admits to murder in a courtroom, and a judge sentences them to death is the judge dehumanizing the murderer? I don’t think anyone would seriously make that claim.
These people are openly wearing the symbols of a regime that believed in the extermination of people for a random set of traits. They are openly espousing the hatred and beliefs that some people are lesser and should be exterminated still. So people are passing judgment. This does not dehumanize them, it holds them accountable for their actions.
And a person can absolutely come to the decision to kill another person while being fully aware and recognizing that persons humanity. It is just an incredibly awful thing to do. I still have zero compunction saying out and out Nazis should die.
The irony is that you can look at the responses to my comments, and see people quite literally say they aren’t human.
This is the problem with statements like the top level comment. You’re giving people permission to dehumanize another group.
And the “self label” isn’t even a good argument. You’re one step away from “they didn’t self label but look at what they believe”.
The solution to a Nazi walking into a bar is to kick their ass out, not shoot them in the head.
Edit: I want to clarify, my point with the “not just a self label” isn’t to say that someone can have Nazi beliefs without being a Nazi, it’s that the label can be applied by anyone to anyone when it’s convenient.
I’m one step away from nothing. They are literally displaying swastikas. And given the chance they would kill me. That is not acceptable. They cannot be tolerated.
Also saying someone lacks humanity isn’t dehumanizing them, it is saying they lack empathy, goodwill, and traits required to be a contributing member of a healthy society. They mean different things.
Admittedly I overstated things when I said no one is dehumanizing them. People can be hateful. What I should have said is that isnt the majority, and dehumanizing someone isnt required for the belief that they should be killed.
Fuck off. They want to kill me for existing. I want to kill them because they want to commit murder on an industrial scale. If you can’t see a difference between those two things, then grab onto your ears and pull really hard until your head is removed from your ass you fucking piece of shit.
No, they took that as their entire reason for being from the very beginning of their existence, it’s not their excuse, it’s their modus operandi, it’s their birthright. They don’t need excuses, they have entitlement.
If someone feels entitled to end your life based on theological racist bullshit then how is returning that sentiment, solely for reasons of wanting to stop others and yourself from their predatory intentions, anything other than self-preservation in the face of a deadly predator?
There are bad people in the world, down to their core monsters, not everybody has a node of redemption and understanding hiding somewhere inside of them waiting to blossom. They are born and die as horrendous atrocities embedded among humanity. Not all of them are nazis but every single nazi has chosen to be one among those ranks.
That’s why we need to be sure they’re a Nazi, because choosing to be a Nazi IS a declaration of intent to commit genocide, and you can’t not respond to that.
It’s not dehumanization to recognize that the survival of humanity at large is dependent on striking down depraved groups like this who are opposed to fundamental cooperation and mutual respect and who instead seek total dominance. Because they’re not targeted because of a simple preference, or what they’re born as, or where, but because they have chosen such vile goals and to be such a great danger to the rest of us.
An example must be set so nobody else will dare to seek dominance because they will have seen what happens to somebody who organizes violence against the innocent. Aggression and instigation against innocent people has to end.
I feel the same way about this as I feel for the death penalty.
The number of people who look back at their life and seriously despise the person they used to be isn’t anywhere close to zero. Hell, look at the work of people like Daryl Davis if you need some actual proof that Nazis and white supremacists can be “brought back” from their extreme beliefs.
Knowing that some of these people can be shown the error of their ways, how is killing them the answer? Because it really just feels like the “easy and loud” solution that just begets more problems.
I see what you’re saying. Using the rhetoric of “There’s no such thing as murdering a […]” is the same shit the Nazi said about Jews. I would rather take a nonviolent approach to this kind of thing, but as another person commented the paradox of tolerance can become a problem. I don’t want to deal with Nazis. I don’t want them in my community. They know they aren’t welcome, so they hide, and only show their faces when they have strength to intimidate. But they’re still here and they still teach hate wherever they go.
One of the things they did to indoctrinate people into Nazi ideology was to brainwash them as children. The Hitler Youth was a big driving part of his power. I think the first step to combat Nazi hate is to teach empathy first. There’s a reason a lot of tattoo artists will do free cover-ups of hate symbols. People change; I want to believe people are inherently good. But until a Nazi sees how evil their beliefs are, they won’t listen to reason and need to be treated as such: an evil bastard.
Can I ask, what is the root reason we hate Nazis? Because the main reason I can think of is that they dehumanize groups of people. Yes, they do tons of heinous shit, but it all boils down to “they aren’t human so it doesn’t matter.”
How is us dehumanizing them any different? Because we think our reason for dehumanizing them is correct? How does that make us any better?
Again, I am in no way saying we should be tolerating them. I’m saying we shouldn’t be dehumanizing them. There’s a chasm between those two points.
Putting aside the fact that I explicitly and literally said “don’t tolerate them”, how exactly does “let’s not dehumanize people” turn into “tolerate them.”
I’m struggling to separate the two. I have to dehumanize them to not tolerate them, because I love people and give them more chances than deserved in everyday life. To the point where my partner gets frustrated with me.
So, how do you define human? How are you defining dehumanizing? Because frankly, they deserve to be dehumanized because in my definition they are barely human and should be kicked out.
Just the plain old definitions of human and dehumanizing.
We don’t dehumanize murderers or rapists, but we certainly don’t tolerate them. How exactly is a Nazi such an extreme that the only way to not tolerate them is killing them?
I dunno man, personally I think shunning them, kicking them out of our establishments, severing ties with them, etc. is a much better solution than “oops I killed a Nazi but it’s okay they don’t count teehee”.
This is the same thing as arguing that you’re a nazi if you’re vegetarian because Hitler was a vegetarian. Intention and context matters.
The root reason we hate nazis is the ideology of authoritarianism and theological views on hierarchy and superiority that makes them feel entitled to entirely eliminate the existence of others for reasons of misunderstanding genetics and entitlement issues. We hate them for what they choose to be. Nobody was born a nazi, it’s very much a choice, and very much a choice of pure and inarguable hatred.
They surrendered their humanity when they refused it to others, the response to that is not trying to coddle their lack of humanity, if they had that in them to begin with then they wouldn’t have ever been a nazi in the first place, especially at this point in history. They chose to be what they are and they are telling everyone exactly who they are, if you’re too stupid to believe them then that’s on you, naivety and morality aren’t the same thing.
Nazis aren’t people, and you’re spewing the exact rhetoric they hope for from bleeding heart “humanitarians.”
“now now, let’s hear them out, I mean all they want to do is enslave those damn [redacted] and torture those fairy [redacted], I mean really, we would be equally bad for shunning them and being mean :(”
education in this country, this world, is lacking so much that some people are seriously making this argument. absolutely insane.
if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and proudly tells you that it’s a nazi, you should probably treat it as it is a nazi.
Don’t even start with this “y so intolerant of intolerance?!?” BS. Tolerance is only a virtue when it’s for inherent traits such as race, sex, gender, religion or culture. Not a full grown adult calling for the elimination of anyone they dislike. One is a human trait and the other is a choice to do evil.
Coming to the defense of nazis doesn’t make you compassionate it makes you an accomplice to their inevitable violence. Fascism is an existential threat to civilization and these monsters are actively acting on their violent rhetoric.
I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action."
Like it’s a novel? 🙄 I read every one of your comments in this thread.
Frankly. I think you remaining speechless is for the best if you’re clicked this thread and decide that those literally in the process of committing violent acts are the ones who need to be shielded. “Kicking them out of the bar” isn’t a solution in the slightest and the more you double down the more I see just another Nazi sitting at their table.
Me: “I’m not saying tolerate them, I’m saying dehumanization of any human isn’t acceptable.”
You: “Why are you Defending Nazis?”
Your responses are so far removed from what I was saying that I can’t even take it as criticism, you’ve assigned me a position I didn’t take, and are trying to take me to task over it.
Good job man, you won the argument you’re having with yourself. Kudos.
I’m not saying tolerate them, I’m saying dehumanization of any human isn’t acceptable. It’s kinda fucked that the reason y’all wanna dehumanize them is because they dehumanize others.
The first sentence qualifier doesn’t make the second sentence any less of a defense. The fact that you can’t see that is historical ignorance.
“Nazis aren’t human but we are” is how we got to the point of having Nazis everywhere again. It’s this kind of thinking that makes people complacent. Nazis are ordinary humans, ordinary people. Becoming a Nazi is a thing regular people do. That’s why Nazism is so dangerous. They’re not weird monsters, they’re regular humans acting as a poison in society. Every society should be on guard for signs that its people are turning Nazi.
Which isn’t to say we should be gentle and tolerant towards these poisonous people. Left undealt with, Nazi poison will destroy everything. It has to be dealt with decisively, and when the government is full of Nazis it’s up to the people to fight back.
It’s not sympathy. It’s recognition that Nazism is a disease any society can succumb to. It’s refusal to take the cheap option and say they’re not human. Their being human is what makes Nazism so dangerous. And we probably agree that you can’t pull punches in dealing with Nazis.
I suspect we’re using the term “human” differently. In my book it’s neutral: humanity means great potential for good and evil. Nazism is the great evil in humanity’s potential. But by “human” people sometimes mean to focus on what makes us capable of compassion and selflessness and not just brutes. There’s none of that in Nazism: it’s sheer brutality and selfishness. So in that sense Nazis do lack humanity.
I reject your claim that I’m sympathetic to Nazis. There’s no sympathy for Nazis here, just a recognition of how deeply dangerous Nazism is.
Hey man, I also don’t agree with the death penalty, so you might wanna revise that tag to include murderes, rapists, and anything else you can think of.
There’s no such thing as murdering a Nazi. It’s always self defense.
We used to shoot Nazis on sight.
Amen.
Massive problems with this kind of statement. Dehumanization of any group shouldn’t be encouraged, it leads down a dangerous path.
Edit: “I thought they were a Nazi so I shot them.”
I’m not saying tolerate them, I’m saying dehumanization of any human isn’t acceptable. It’s kinda fucked that the reason y’all wanna dehumanize them is because they dehumanize others.
Paradox of tolerance
It’s right there dude.
“They go low we go high!”
This kind of cancerous thinking made people stop advocating for even stronger secularism, because the US had a “good christian” in the white house, so it’s not religious fundamentalism that is the problem, but “fake christians” wanting to implement Project 2025.
No one is dehumanizing them. They are humans. They happen to be humans whose beliefs and actions are an active harm to society and a threat to a large portion of the global population. So they should be removed. They aren’t sub-human, they aren’t bring targeted for being less than, they aren’t being targeted because of race, ethnicity, orientation, religion, or anything like that. For society to grow and thrive they need to no longer be a part of society. How that happens is a judgment call, but it needs to happen.
I get what you’re saying, but stating that it is always acceptable kill a nazi no matter the situation is most definitely dehumanization. I’m not sure how you could twist it into anything else.
There are so many other ways to remove them from society that doesn’t include labeling someone as something and deciding it’s okay to kill them based on that label.
They labeled themselves. That’s good enough for me.
They labeled themselves. If someone admits to murder in a courtroom, and a judge sentences them to death is the judge dehumanizing the murderer? I don’t think anyone would seriously make that claim.
These people are openly wearing the symbols of a regime that believed in the extermination of people for a random set of traits. They are openly espousing the hatred and beliefs that some people are lesser and should be exterminated still. So people are passing judgment. This does not dehumanize them, it holds them accountable for their actions.
And a person can absolutely come to the decision to kill another person while being fully aware and recognizing that persons humanity. It is just an incredibly awful thing to do. I still have zero compunction saying out and out Nazis should die.
The irony is that you can look at the responses to my comments, and see people quite literally say they aren’t human.
This is the problem with statements like the top level comment. You’re giving people permission to dehumanize another group.
And the “self label” isn’t even a good argument. You’re one step away from “they didn’t self label but look at what they believe”.
The solution to a Nazi walking into a bar is to kick their ass out, not shoot them in the head.
Edit: I want to clarify, my point with the “not just a self label” isn’t to say that someone can have Nazi beliefs without being a Nazi, it’s that the label can be applied by anyone to anyone when it’s convenient.
I’m one step away from nothing. They are literally displaying swastikas. And given the chance they would kill me. That is not acceptable. They cannot be tolerated.
Also saying someone lacks humanity isn’t dehumanizing them, it is saying they lack empathy, goodwill, and traits required to be a contributing member of a healthy society. They mean different things.
Admittedly I overstated things when I said no one is dehumanizing them. People can be hateful. What I should have said is that isnt the majority, and dehumanizing someone isnt required for the belief that they should be killed.
You are giving them the same excuse.
Fuck off. They want to kill me for existing. I want to kill them because they want to commit murder on an industrial scale. If you can’t see a difference between those two things, then grab onto your ears and pull really hard until your head is removed from your ass you fucking piece of shit.
No, they took that as their entire reason for being from the very beginning of their existence, it’s not their excuse, it’s their modus operandi, it’s their birthright. They don’t need excuses, they have entitlement.
If someone feels entitled to end your life based on theological racist bullshit then how is returning that sentiment, solely for reasons of wanting to stop others and yourself from their predatory intentions, anything other than self-preservation in the face of a deadly predator?
There are bad people in the world, down to their core monsters, not everybody has a node of redemption and understanding hiding somewhere inside of them waiting to blossom. They are born and die as horrendous atrocities embedded among humanity. Not all of them are nazis but every single nazi has chosen to be one among those ranks.
We didn’t label them, they labeled themselves loudly and proudly as an imminent threat to anyone who is not them.
That’s why we need to be sure they’re a Nazi, because choosing to be a Nazi IS a declaration of intent to commit genocide, and you can’t not respond to that.
It’s not dehumanization to recognize that the survival of humanity at large is dependent on striking down depraved groups like this who are opposed to fundamental cooperation and mutual respect and who instead seek total dominance. Because they’re not targeted because of a simple preference, or what they’re born as, or where, but because they have chosen such vile goals and to be such a great danger to the rest of us.
An example must be set so nobody else will dare to seek dominance because they will have seen what happens to somebody who organizes violence against the innocent. Aggression and instigation against innocent people has to end.
I feel the same way about this as I feel for the death penalty.
The number of people who look back at their life and seriously despise the person they used to be isn’t anywhere close to zero. Hell, look at the work of people like Daryl Davis if you need some actual proof that Nazis and white supremacists can be “brought back” from their extreme beliefs.
Knowing that some of these people can be shown the error of their ways, how is killing them the answer? Because it really just feels like the “easy and loud” solution that just begets more problems.
“aw guys I know they expressed a desire to murder us all for the color of our skin, but people can change!”
No.
I see what you’re saying. Using the rhetoric of “There’s no such thing as murdering a […]” is the same shit the Nazi said about Jews. I would rather take a nonviolent approach to this kind of thing, but as another person commented the paradox of tolerance can become a problem. I don’t want to deal with Nazis. I don’t want them in my community. They know they aren’t welcome, so they hide, and only show their faces when they have strength to intimidate. But they’re still here and they still teach hate wherever they go.
One of the things they did to indoctrinate people into Nazi ideology was to brainwash them as children. The Hitler Youth was a big driving part of his power. I think the first step to combat Nazi hate is to teach empathy first. There’s a reason a lot of tattoo artists will do free cover-ups of hate symbols. People change; I want to believe people are inherently good. But until a Nazi sees how evil their beliefs are, they won’t listen to reason and need to be treated as such: an evil bastard.
Hard disagree. And that way of thinking is why we’re in the mess we’re in.
Can I ask, what is the root reason we hate Nazis? Because the main reason I can think of is that they dehumanize groups of people. Yes, they do tons of heinous shit, but it all boils down to “they aren’t human so it doesn’t matter.”
How is us dehumanizing them any different? Because we think our reason for dehumanizing them is correct? How does that make us any better?
Again, I am in no way saying we should be tolerating them. I’m saying we shouldn’t be dehumanizing them. There’s a chasm between those two points.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
Putting aside the fact that I explicitly and literally said “don’t tolerate them”, how exactly does “let’s not dehumanize people” turn into “tolerate them.”
I’ll take the bait.
I’m struggling to separate the two. I have to dehumanize them to not tolerate them, because I love people and give them more chances than deserved in everyday life. To the point where my partner gets frustrated with me.
So, how do you define human? How are you defining dehumanizing? Because frankly, they deserve to be dehumanized because in my definition they are barely human and should be kicked out.
Just the plain old definitions of human and dehumanizing.
We don’t dehumanize murderers or rapists, but we certainly don’t tolerate them. How exactly is a Nazi such an extreme that the only way to not tolerate them is killing them?
I do dehumanize murderers and rapists so I guess I need to bow out of this conversation.
Jesus fucking Christ.
I dunno man, personally I think shunning them, kicking them out of our establishments, severing ties with them, etc. is a much better solution than “oops I killed a Nazi but it’s okay they don’t count teehee”.
THAT. DOES. NOT. FUCKING WORK.
But Nazi’s don’t count.
This is the same thing as arguing that you’re a nazi if you’re vegetarian because Hitler was a vegetarian. Intention and context matters.
The root reason we hate nazis is the ideology of authoritarianism and theological views on hierarchy and superiority that makes them feel entitled to entirely eliminate the existence of others for reasons of misunderstanding genetics and entitlement issues. We hate them for what they choose to be. Nobody was born a nazi, it’s very much a choice, and very much a choice of pure and inarguable hatred.
They surrendered their humanity when they refused it to others, the response to that is not trying to coddle their lack of humanity, if they had that in them to begin with then they wouldn’t have ever been a nazi in the first place, especially at this point in history. They chose to be what they are and they are telling everyone exactly who they are, if you’re too stupid to believe them then that’s on you, naivety and morality aren’t the same thing.
Nazis aren’t people, and you’re spewing the exact rhetoric they hope for from bleeding heart “humanitarians.”
“now now, let’s hear them out, I mean all they want to do is enslave those damn [redacted] and torture those fairy [redacted], I mean really, we would be equally bad for shunning them and being mean :(”
education in this country, this world, is lacking so much that some people are seriously making this argument. absolutely insane.
if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and proudly tells you that it’s a nazi, you should probably treat it as it is a nazi.
The main person making that argument here eventually settled on, “people can change.”
Makes me wonder why they’re so upset about this Nazi killing talk… Maybe they used to be one? “Used to” maybe doing a bit of heavy lifting.
Don’t even start with this “y so intolerant of intolerance?!?” BS. Tolerance is only a virtue when it’s for inherent traits such as race, sex, gender, religion or culture. Not a full grown adult calling for the elimination of anyone they dislike. One is a human trait and the other is a choice to do evil.
Coming to the defense of nazis doesn’t make you compassionate it makes you an accomplice to their inevitable violence. Fascism is an existential threat to civilization and these monsters are actively acting on their violent rhetoric.
-Dr. King
You should be fucking ashamed of yourself.
Not gonna lie, I don’t know how to respond when it’s obvious you didn’t actually read my comment.
Like it’s a novel? 🙄 I read every one of your comments in this thread.
Frankly. I think you remaining speechless is for the best if you’re clicked this thread and decide that those literally in the process of committing violent acts are the ones who need to be shielded. “Kicking them out of the bar” isn’t a solution in the slightest and the more you double down the more I see just another Nazi sitting at their table.
More that you’re either not bothering to read or arguing against a straw man.
Whatever you got to tell yourself so you can justify ignoring critism. Not surprising, still disappointing.
Me: “I’m not saying tolerate them, I’m saying dehumanization of any human isn’t acceptable.”
You: “Why are you Defending Nazis?”
Your responses are so far removed from what I was saying that I can’t even take it as criticism, you’ve assigned me a position I didn’t take, and are trying to take me to task over it.
Good job man, you won the argument you’re having with yourself. Kudos.
The first sentence qualifier doesn’t make the second sentence any less of a defense. The fact that you can’t see that is historical ignorance.
The man who seeks to subjugate, oppress, and destroy the lives of others will find no greater ally than the one he finds in “seekers” of peace.
The rational man is the first enemy of the people, and their expression of freedom.
Nazis aren’t human. Tagging you as Nazi simp.
“Nazis aren’t human but we are” is how we got to the point of having Nazis everywhere again. It’s this kind of thinking that makes people complacent. Nazis are ordinary humans, ordinary people. Becoming a Nazi is a thing regular people do. That’s why Nazism is so dangerous. They’re not weird monsters, they’re regular humans acting as a poison in society. Every society should be on guard for signs that its people are turning Nazi.
Which isn’t to say we should be gentle and tolerant towards these poisonous people. Left undealt with, Nazi poison will destroy everything. It has to be dealt with decisively, and when the government is full of Nazis it’s up to the people to fight back.
Sorry I disagree with your sympathy for Nazis.
It’s not sympathy. It’s recognition that Nazism is a disease any society can succumb to. It’s refusal to take the cheap option and say they’re not human. Their being human is what makes Nazism so dangerous. And we probably agree that you can’t pull punches in dealing with Nazis.
I suspect we’re using the term “human” differently. In my book it’s neutral: humanity means great potential for good and evil. Nazism is the great evil in humanity’s potential. But by “human” people sometimes mean to focus on what makes us capable of compassion and selflessness and not just brutes. There’s none of that in Nazism: it’s sheer brutality and selfishness. So in that sense Nazis do lack humanity.
I reject your claim that I’m sympathetic to Nazis. There’s no sympathy for Nazis here, just a recognition of how deeply dangerous Nazism is.
We both disagree with each other. My views have not changed.
Hey man, I also don’t agree with the death penalty, so you might wanna revise that tag to include murderes, rapists, and anything else you can think of.
Yes I understand who you are entirely and I think you’re sick.
lol