This is your hourly reminder that Brave is still Chromium and still contributes to Google’s influence over internet standards.
Iirc Firefox and I think Safari are the only major non-chromium browsers. It makes me so sad because I remember Google’s “don’t be evil” days… man they left that behind
they’ve lived long enough to become the bad guys
Safari already has attestation, has for a while, so while its at least a different browser, it’s still part of the problem.
Anyone saying about duck duck go? Iv been using that and seems good
Their browser is webkit on iOS since apple doesn’t allow anything else on that platform. The mac version is also webkit. And the android version is - you guess it - blink, the engine used by chromium.
Doesn’t allow anything else on that platform yet*. Apple should be dropping the webkit requirement pretty soon and google and mozilla are already working on ios ports of their engines.
Duckduckgo will stick with WebKit because they want to keep it native
What about Opera GX? The mobile and Desktop versions.
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Still chromium underneath, just like the normal opera
:disintigrate.png:
chromium, and not even open source(from what i know)
It is good for privacy, but quality of results has always felt a bit lacking to me
That’s a search engine, chrome and Firefox are the browser. You can use duck duck go from either.
I haven’t heard anything negative about them yet.
I have the duck duck app on my phone, wasn’t sure if it was any different
I just looked it up and you’re right. Looks like they have a browser out now. My mistake.
I believe duck duck go sources their results from Google somehow. For whatever that’s worth
DDG aggregates from Yahoo afaik.
And I thought yahoo got it’s results from Google too… I probably have no idea though.
This is what DDG has to say about where their results come from:
https://duckduckgo.com/duckduckgo-help-pages/results/sources/
Spoiler alert: It’s not Google or Yahoo.
Interesting. And Wikipedia says yahoo gets it’s search data from Bing.
I’m thinking about switching to Librawolf for the privacy features
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the CEO is also a homophobic bigot and covid denier
Had no idea! Thanks I’m getting off brave!
Thanks for pointing this out! I was already using Firefox, but after looking this up I found out that they also got rid of him for being homophobic.
Firefox it is!
i always use software for what it is, ignoring the beliefs of its creator, but ive already been using firefox, librewolf and mullvad browser since i moved to linux, and i have only been seeing people say stuff that shows chromium is worse. (except for people with no argument of course)
Librewolf has been pretty cool since I started using it as a sidearm with less than 600 ff tabs, how does mullvad compare?
Librewolf has been pretty cool since I started using it as a sidearm with less than 600 ff tabs, how does mullvad compare?
The CEO also donated to Prop 8 in California and a number of other bigoted conservative things.
This is your hourly reminder that default Firefox isn’t that great for privacy thus librewolf exist
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Honestly I dunno on this one. Someone likes foxes more than wolves I guess lol
Cool. If me choosing Brave over FF contributes to the demise of the useless, cash-grab scam which Mozilla is, I’ll happily continue using Brave.
I hate to be a pessimist but if people hate Musk as much as they seem to, but can’t leave twitter,
or post “Fuck Spez” thousands of times, but won’t leave reddit,
I’m cautious about how much of an exodous I expect to see from chrome.
I think its time we face the fact that most people will trade almost anything for convenience.
The piece that gets continuously underestimated is who moves in these small initial jumps. It tends to be the more technically inclined, who over the next couple years, their recommendations will lead to friends and family moving as well, at a slower rate.
The piece that gets continuously underestimated is who moves in these small initial jumps. It tends to be the more technically inclined, who over the next couple years, their recommendations will lead to friends and family moving as well, at a slower rate.
Sure. And here we are. I’m sure these companies consider us a real fly in the ointment. But I’m not inclined to believe the past is perfectly predictive of the future. What you described is also, in my perspective, how things have gone in the past. But will it happen the same way this time? I don’t know. I’m not confident based on what I’ve seen. They are trying to close in the walls on the internet and they are confident that people are too lazy to stop them.
If Internet Explorer managed to fall from 96% market share to complete irrelevance, Chrome is not immortal either.
You arent wrong. But, acectdata and mine own, convenience drove that. People are fucking lazy and hate nothing more than to be inconvenienced. When chrome was getting traction, explorer was trasshhhhhhhhh and every one knew it.
Chrome might be a bit bloated but its no explorer. If it doesn’t hurt people to stay, I don’t think we’ll see a shift.
Back then internet users werent normies, but nreds and tech savy people. Also, chrome learned from IE’s mistakes. It wont stop functioning and will keep updating, so the average normy user wont mind.
With the way every site is these days, removing adblock is worse than not functioning
I genuinely don’t know how Ill use the web without ad block. Cause I damn sure ain’t going back to paying for anti-virus like in the 90’s for a web experience that is objectively worse and less magical enough to risk it.
Drive by malware and viruses from ads has gotten scarily good at infecting systems without you knowing. It’s worse than ever as it’s not just a sketchy site issue thing anymore either. Even reputable sites have ads that only take one misclick to infect you now
You made me proud of myself! I have left all three!
They better watch out. There are dozens of us. Dozens!
I cannot leave Twitter as I never used it.
Browsers at least, unlike social networks, don’t benefit from networking effects. How many people use a specific browser doesn’t directly affect the usefulness of that browser, as users of different browsers can interact with each other to the same degree as users of the same browser. For now at least, as Google’s Web Integrity API could obviously change that if websites start to require and some browser are unable or unwilling to provide it.
How many people use a specific browser doesn’t directly affect the usefulness of that browser, as users of different browsers can interact with each other to the same degree as users of the same browser. For now at least, as Google’s Web Integrity API could obviously change that if websites start to require and some browser are unable or unwilling to provide it.
Thats a great point and something to consider.
True. I MUST use Edge at work and honestly, its fine. Its not some radical departure from Firefox, i dont have to think too hard about the differences.
I switched to Firefox on windows and android on the same day as I saw that WEI bullshit.
I don’t know why the fuck I was thinking it would be a worse experience… It’s the same thing.
Bro wait till you install Linux.
It’s actually better as a stock experience than windows 11.
It’s actually better as a stock experience than windows
Don’t even need the 11 on the end.
I have used Ubuntu for a few months, and for me, windows 10 is still better.
Pessimist, but most likely right
Google broke on Firefox for a while a day ago for me. Went to some other search engine.
Jumping from social media is hard.
Jumping from applications is not.
teamspeak became Skype which became discord.
And many of us did leave Reddit. I didn’t even leave because I cared about the protests or what Reddit was doing. I left because many posts were deleted, people left, subreddits became abandoned.
Lemmy became better than Reddit basically overnight.
It is a slow process, most will still use it, but it will be less and less as time passes.
Twitter is a different beast, most of the people you follow on twitter are only active in certain groups.
All we can do is inform them and focus on what we do, no need to be stuck on what others do.
I just switched yesterday after learning more about why I should here in Lemmy.
The last time I tried FF (many years ago) it was incredibly slow, so I went with chrome. But the FF of today is actually noticably quicker.
Also, FF offered to import all of my bookmarks, autofills, passwords, history, and even my extensions (if a FF version exists of course, almost all of which did) and did so seamlessly. It was the easiest software switch ever.
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Why should I switch? Just curious.
Apart from privacy concerns, Google has started to add some really bad features to Chrome, such as “Manifest V3” and “Web Environment Integrity”. These limit your ability to block ads or generally modify your device or the websites you’re visiting, and are just a bad for the web as a whole. WEI in particular is basically DRM for the web, so Google checks your device and denies you access to websites if they don’t like it. But as long as the majority of people keep using Chrome they can just force these things onto everyone.
My friggin’ Chromebook (which works great) can’t install FF.
I’ve tried rooting into Ubuntu, but, I can’t get it all straightened out. Until I notice truly diminished issues… I’ll use Chromebook as is.
You have 3 options:
- Enable Linux container and install FF in Linux: https://chromeos.dev/en/linux/setup
- Install FF from Play Store
- If your Chromebook is old enough to not be capable of either, then you can wipe ChromeOS and install Linux bare-metal. mrchromebox.tech
Not even as an Android app? I’ve run Firefox from crostini as well but the Android approach is a lot easier.
I tried FF earlier this year. It sucked. Everything just took extra clicks. The password manager was a pain and didn’t interact with my phone apps properly.
I know the complaints against chrome. When it starts forcing me to watch ads I might try FF again.
Hey, at least installing a foss browser won’t slow down your phone like a spyware app, you could always try something like Mull even for only a portion of your browsing if you have ~80MB to spare. I suggest it because I hate some of that extra bullshit that comes with standard Firefox. Also there’s tons of projects that try similar stuff with Chromium! Like Mulch. Way better defaults than Chrome
Depending on which Chromebook it is, you can always install the Linux container and install it in there
The Android FF is not a great user experience for sure. On desktop it’s just fine but Android is janky. I tolerate anyway to support Firefox but chrome is miles better on mobile.
Showing people that they can avoid ads by switching from chromium might make more people use adblockers.
I get flabbergasted whenever I talk to someone and realize they’re unaware that such things exist. I hope all (according to the google store entry for ublock origin) 10,000,000 of the ublock origin users switches from chromium based browsers to, say, firefox…
Feels like chromium is the new internet explorer…
That’s why Google is trying to launch the “Web Integrity API” that will essentially allow them to mandate any website accessible to or using Google Services to ban browsers that have ad blockers.
I know a lot of Chrome users, and the general story I get from them is nearly always the same infuriating bullshit along these lines:
“So, I tried the like, Fox Fire thingy, but this one time, like, it took, like, 1.5 seconds to load, so it’s “””“”“”““slow””“”“”“”" so I just use Chrome 'cause it’s, like, faster and stuff."
Yeah, and I suppose the 427 useless things you have running in your system tray right now don’t have anything to do with your computer being “slow,” right?
Wouldn’t those 427 things make chrome slow too
Yes
There is also the initial load problem where it would take longer to load in Firefox compared to chrome. Yet people will attribute it to the browser and not the fact that assets were already stored in chrome.
Fox Fire thingy
Oh god, I’m having Vietnam flashbacks
To me it looks like a tech savy kind of hurdle, once people learn about it and start thinkering they start to use it also.
Better for us when people start caring for what they tolerate from corps.
Firefox Mobile is great, Being able to add extensions is just wonderful.
Honestly I cant live without UBlock Origin after using it for so long. The modern web is so horrible with ads
Try branch -u origin/main /s
The available extensions are limited, but tampermonkey gives you access to lots of custom extension opportunities, I use it to make Twitter bearable.
They just announced that all extensions will be available for Firefox Mobile by the end of the year.
You wish that was happening.
I’m preparing to be completely unsurprised that Firefox’s market share will still be at 3% next month and the month after that.
If that 3% is made up of an outsized share of power users they might be ok. I’m more worried about the power structure shenanigans that have been going on the past few years.
I alway wonder how underreported the Firefox figures are by things like that its users are generally more technical/privacy aware (so are blocking the trackers that report these numbers) and also spiders and bots often pretend to to Chrome (inflating those numbers).
If I had to choose between a tracked, ad-filled experience and a slower, protected experience, I would go back to 1990s style Internet in a second.
Hahaha, the wild west!
A few years back when Firefox went through the whole “Quantum” update, I jumped and never looked back. It’s just better in every way, in my opinion.
I use it on my laptop, but it’s crap on my phone. My phone is pretty old now, I use opera. I know, no one likes opera, but I’ve used it that long now I find it difficult to jump across. I tried again recently, but it’s still too slow.
Isn’t Opera Chromium now too?
Yep it has been for a while.
Was it previously not Chromium?
It used to use a browser engine called Presto, but they dropped it in 2013.
I learned something today, thanks
As a user of Linux and primarily FOSS software for 2 years, each time I recommended something FOSS, others had bad luck.
- I tried switching someone to Linux but I couldn’t achive %100 funnctionality on a Windows only app I set up via Wine. (it is an obscure program, not sth like Adobe or MS Office)
- I recommended Kdenlive to a Mac user friend, he couldn’t export a video he spent 30 hours on it.
- I convinced someone to use Libreoffice but they lost data in only 30 mins because I forgot to tell that if you draw more than a few strokes in LO Draw it enters a save loop. This is fixed now thankfully.
- I recommended VLC for DVD ripping, it entered some sort of loop and failed to export.
Each of the above examples involve completely different people, by the way.
- I set up 2 fresh Windows installs for family but installed Firefox with strict protection and uBlock Origin instead of Chrome and… it worked?! They still use Firefox. Maybe the alpenglow theme is too good, I don’t know.
You’re right and it’s that sort of stuff that people like you and me will deal with and figure out and move on but unfortunately it’s not the case with regular people. That’s why I never recommend that sorry if stuff to ‘normies’ ie. My mom. Instead I set them up with the lesser of evils that will give them convenience and make them more likely to trust me in the future. That way, if I ever REALLY need them to move on from something they will be more likely to just listen to me and not fight me about it. I just got a couple of friends to switch over to Firefox even though they were chrome fans, all because I have years of goodwill. Ported their bookmarks and got them ublock and they barely even notice a difference.
I think this is true for everything… we just notice it when we’re the ones ahead.
Some people can’t change tires, some can’t cook, some can do basic plumbing, some can’t remove appendixes, some can’t swim… whatever.
Granted, I think the main divide were all on the good side of is “some people know how to search, some people don’t”
Awesome, baby steps.
Shit breaks, but we keep trying and see what works!
Keep the fight going, peace!
One day my friend, one day I will make a Linux convert
Hahaha, that will be awesome!
I think it would have to be someone that likes to learn new things and mess around with electronics.
What’s the advantage for google of doing this move? People “savy” enough to install an adblock (or even know that it exists) is most likely to switch to a competitor that allows for adblocking
Majority will keep using, for a while, until years later more see what has happened and move.
Mean while profits on marketing go up.
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Mhm, I see that point, although I find it concerning given that the quality of the UX platforms like youtube has kept a consistent decline over the past decade. It feels like google keeps amassing more and more reasons for people to enable adblockers but I also understand youtube needs to be a profitable business and at some point you need to show ads
True, these are the challenges of freeware, ads are required unless you pay or become a pirate.
Youtubers/social media now mostly have promotions within videos, so we went back to how cable functions.
Thoughts on Social media/Rumble/twitter and other video platforms will evolve over time?
I think Alphabet (Google) will keep doing things that make people leave there other platforms, youtube will take a while so changes will be more gradual.
As a small note, in an unexpected turn of events, that “sponsor block” extension popped up also blocking promotions, I find it incredibly amazing that blocking ads can even go that further
I can’t put my finger on it, but somehow I feel like youtube is irreplaceable, I don’t say this out of some internet patriotism, I just think the initial momentum of inertia really has to be massive to make it budge, while with fediverse-stuff you can gradually generate content and maybe some people will be attracted (?)
And twitter’s trajectory is to fucking weird and unpredictable right now that I just have no clue 🙃🙃🙃
Everything is replaceable. Nothing should live forever.
Awesome, I did not know blocking sponsers was a thing, wow.
Yes, you are right, youtube will be harder to leave for people, but Tiktok/twitter/etc. are grabbing the attention away from yt.
They all are trying to keep you on their platform as much as possible, for ads and data collection.
The new big thing may be bettet at that…?
Thanks for your input!
Oh yes, you’re right, tiktok is really eating youtube’s meal… and about the new big thing, hums, I’m not sure how it would look like 🤔
Thank you for your input as well!! 🙌🏻✨
TikTok is definitely hitting for certain demographics, but YouTube is still king in the long form department and I don’t see that changing unless they completely alienate their watchers and creators or someone comes along and offers significantly more money (to creators).
It won’t be a change no one notices though. Even non-savvy people who use ad-blockers are obviously going to notice that the internet suddenly became a significantly terrible experience.
The way things are going with data collection and advertising, the EU is bound to put heavy restrictions on it, basically killing the market Google is built on. They are trying to find a middle ground between banning data collection and full on everything being collected you do online, and if ad blockers just happen to die in the crossfire, it’s not Google’s concern.
I believe it’s a two-pronged attack.
They have the Trust API changes they are trying to push, which I believe they may try to make websites only support browsers using that API. They have a largest user base already so they have some sway, if Chrome won’t load your webpage, you business might be dead.
Couple that with their anti ad blocking extension, users have to use Chrome to access webpages and can’t block ads on those pages.
Mildly tinfoil-hatty, but I think within the realm of possibility.
I think firefox should ship with ublock origin installed. (Perhaps also containers).
Hopefully then more people will migrate faster
At least tracking protection should be set to strict, iirc on default setting it barely blocks any ads.
Strict tracking protection makes Firefox on Android a ton faster, especially on any website owned by Google or any link that has a Google wrapper (e.g. clicking a link on the Gmail app)
Strict protection on iOS was literally the difference between “I can use this phone” and “brick”. I had an old iPhone, 6 Plus, and Safari lagged to death because it tried to load ads. Firefox didn’t.
Try Orion for iOS, it has better ad blocking
Thanks for recommendation, YT adblock is interesting.
Does that make a difference if you already have the PrivacyBadger extension?
That would be awesome!
I have for a long time been on Firefox. It’s stable and works great.
Long time Firefox user over here too (2016) 🤟
Nice!
Great!
In the old days I used Firefox exclusively, until my work started only supporting chrome so I kinda went with it and switched. Out of habit I continued until a couple of years ago, that I went full Firefox again and I remembered why I loved it.
Never left. Never would leave. Chrome was always a trap.
Oh, nice.
people when they learn about unlock origin works better with firefox
I bet most people saying chrome is faster don’t even know about adblockers or are using Google’s websites
When I made the switch I was shocked at well it blocks ads. It still surprises me to this day. Yeah, it takes a little longer to load, but I couldn’t care less.
