Gas baby!
As long as you don’t have kids it’s a good option. Otherwise it can contribute to life long health issues.
Gas stoves can negatively impact children’s health by contributing to asthma and respiratory issues, as studies suggest that around 12.7% of childhood asthma in the U.S. can be attributed to gas stove use. They emit pollutants like nitrogen dioxide, which can worsen asthma symptoms and lung function in children.
Induction has just gone from “cool, but for the rich folks” to simply an undisputed king of stovetops.
Much like solar and other green technologies.
Induction rules but the touch controls that almost always come with them can fuck right off.
Absolutely. Luckily, there are induction hobs with knobs (I personally own one), and I hope we’ll see more of them going forward.
Cool! Can I ask which one you have?
Some of the Gorenje Infinity series, don’t remember the model as I bought it second-hand. Here’s a very similar-looking one, Gorenje Infinity EC6INB, except mine has knobs facing front, not right:
Looks sick, works flawless, got in good condition for $50. Can’t complain.
Also all my pots and pans are…aluminum
Are they anodised?
We couldn’t possibly use these button things. They are secret arcane technology.
I’ve had too many induction stove tops turn off too many times by moving a pan over the on button for this to be true
It’s not a problem inherit to induction hobs. But oh god do I agree. On mine it’s any little spill or pot out of place on any touch button will turn it off. I will demand physical knobs on my next stove top.
That’s not really an induction top issue, but rather a general issue with “smart” appliances. Electric stove tops with touch have the same issue and my induction top with knobs works fine.
In my experience at least the vast majority of induction tops have touch controls but I understand that they can come without
Which bits on, who can say. Perhaps none of it is on, perhaps resistive touch screen controls are a bad idea on the surface that might get wet. Who can say.
It’s funny because while I didn’t comment on the previous post about the superior burner location, I do happen to have an induction range that has the big coil in the front right. So I get to have a side in both conflicts!
Seriously though, induction is the undisputed winner. We’ve had this thing for years, and whatever price premium I paid to move up to a lower priced induction model was totally worth it.
That big “burner” plus my big nitrided carbon steel pan is my go-to now to start like 80% of things I cook on the stove. Not counting heating up water in the kettle daily, though. That uses the small burner behind the big one. Then there are two mediums on the left. Or maybe it’s small, two large, and one XL.
Within two weeks my gas stove and oven are getting chucked out the door. Replaced with an induction stove top and a convection/steam oven/air fryer.
Sometimes I have to go back to cooking on a ceramic or gas at someone else’s house and it always annoys me how long boiling water takes.
Fast heating, wipe clean, works off clean electricity, roasts me less in the summer, doesn’t care about the air coming from a window, starts the first time every time, what more could I ask for? I got this cheap plug in one and it dropkicks my installed gas stove in basically every metric.
The main downside is that your pots and pans need to be compatible. In particular we have a few nice small pans, like actually small, and they work exclusively on the front left burner, and need to be a bit off center. I imagine there’s something wrong with the stove or the pans, but it’s a class of issues you don’t have with resistive or gas stoves.
Yeah fast and easy to clean. What more can you want?
Physical knobs to turn instead of the tests of the limits of my patience that are capacitive buttons on a cooking device.
Please and thank you.
I hate capacitive buttons so much
Some induction stoves do have real knobs. Smeg makes one that I have not used so I can’t say anything about the quality, but I’m just happy that they exist.
That’s an unfortunate company name. Especially for one that makes kitchen appliances.
It’s an acronym for Smalterie Metallurgiche Emiliane Guastalla (“Emilian Guastalla Metallurgical Enamelling Works” in Italian). They’re actually a pretty high end brand, but yes, the name is amusing
Smeghead
That’s me. I appreciate the hell out of some enamel
Aaand actual temperature control. Not just on/off 100% power.
Temperature control seems to have so much delay that it seesaws wildly and isn’t actually useful in practice. I couldn’t get mine to boil eggs without it stopping the boil constantly, unless I set it to 160°+ IIRC.
I’ve had trouble finding the right setting (particularly with rice in my case) because it does adjust the power output very rapidly and you don’t have the temperature interia of a big ceramic pad in addition to your pan. Using cast iron on induction eliminates this problem. But I have a better way for eggs.
Steam your eggs in a steamer basket. Then you don’t have to worry about the water coming back to a boil after adding the eggs and the eggs don’t bounce around inside the pot.
- Fill a pot to just under the level of the basket.
- Bring to a boil.
- Add as many eggs as you want or will fit. One egg? Six eggs? Doesn’t matter steps are the same.
- Steam for about 7-10minutes depending on how you like your yolk. 7 minutes = gooey ramen soft boiled. 10 = fully cooked hard boiled.
- Remove eggs and shock in an ice bath to stop the eggs from continuing to cook from holdover heat. This also helps the peeling.
- If you want them peeled right away, give them some time to chill fully. Crack the shells throughly, lots of tiny cracks all over, no big in cracked sections. It helps to roll them around on a hard flat surface gently after getting some cracks going. Peel under cold running water, using the force of the water to get under the skin between the egg white and the hard shell.
Maybe not temp control, struggling to find a word, but a constant power flow instead of the on off duty cycle
I’ve never noticed a duty cycle with my induction, only conventional cooktops. Is that a problem with particularl makes, models, or price points?
My induction just sets the power output to the level I choose and holds it there. It doesn’t hold a temperature, just a power output, so I do have to watch it because setting it to medium will be very different on a hot pan vs a cold pan.
We have one at work that does this. Super annoying. If you put it at 5/10 it’s full blast 3 seconds and then off 3 seconds. It’s probably prevalent on cheap models.
Ah yes, the duty cycling is annoying, too!
Mine has 10 different power settings
i guess to be able to cook my food and keep me warm when the power goes out.
Where in the hell do you live to see a power outage? I live in the EU and the longest power outage was for three hours when I was a child. That was the only one in my life.
In the US, objectively the greatest country in the world (/s), you can expect a major power outage every other year, and it will be blamed on the very people who fucking called it.
Last big one in my life was just a couple years ago, no power for two weeks. Greatest country in the world my ass.
In my life I don’t think I’ve seen a power outage longer than a couple hours, and that was maybe once? I don’t even remember the last time I’ve seen one. Maybe experienced 10-15 in my whole life, with most lasting minutes.
Am I just really lucky in my area? Or is this the experience most people have?
Texans need not answer, I already know.
I live in Seattle, and this has been my experience. Techno-city powered by dams = reliable
it happens to me about once a year, where i lose power for like 2 days due to a snow storm
2 days with no power? Damn! I can see the allure of gas much more in this situation
Where do you live? US?
yes on the east coast. not anywhere partially remote
what more could I ask for?
Longevity. My first induction lasted 10 years. My second 3 years, my 3rd six months, my fourth weeks. I use a conventional glasstop electric now.
Interesting. Is everything alright with your wiring/electric source? Because them dying in progressively shorter time tells this way.
Still, conventional electric is not bad.
Electrical is fine. Planned obsalescence is shit.
If there was a problem with the wiring, wouldn’t conventional electric also have issues?
Yes. But the issue was declining then shit quality of GE induction.
My conventional is rocking it. I miss my original induction, but they just don’t make em like they used to. When (if) I find the money, I’ll take one more gamble on induction and try a miele.
Dang, that sucks. I’m still daily using an electric stove from the 1950’s lol. I would love it if modern “environmentally friendly” appliances could last this long
if i could afford an induction cooker with a bowl shaped coil to fit a wok, i’d be fully satisfied.
I got this cheap plug in one and it dropkicks my installed gas stove in basically every metric.
like a hot plate?
which one my hot plate is too shitty to use my moka pot on but i have zero problems using the moka pot over gas
Probably because your moka pot is aluminum (or otherwise non-magnetic) so induction can’t heat it.
oh, my shitty hot plate is one of those coils. it’s really shitty.
its problem is that it only has two settings, on and off, and it reaches the desired temperature by cycling between those. and full blast hot boils the water too fast.
Oh yea, that’s a different problem. One of the big drawbacks of all radiant electric unfortunately.
Aluminum is more conductive than steel so eddy currents flow more easily in aluminum. Some pans have an aluminum disc inside, for induction stovetops. Maybe it’s too much aluminum vs just a disc? His hot plate might be too low power or not induction just a glass top
This is wrong. Induction requires magnetism, not conductivity. A pure aluminum pan will not get hot on an induction hob. Some aluminum pans have an iron or steel plate inserted in their base to allow them to work on induction.
OK you’re saying the higher resistance of the steel is needed for adequate heat. Got it
No, I am saying the pan has to be magnetic, which is what I have said 3 times now. You are completely wrong about how induction cooking works.
Heat from eddy currents is a small fraction of what magnetic hysteresis can produce. You can technically heat any good conductor with eddy currents alone if it is non-magnetic, but the equipment needed is significantly more complex and power hungry than induction cooking hobs.
You’re wrong too, what on Earth does hysteresis have to do with heating??
Because we’re working with AC, we need a small skin effect, which is given by the inverse square root of [pifrequencypermeability*conductivity]. It’s permeability that’s going to be the deciding factor here, because all metals have reasonably similar conductivity but ferromagnetic materials have four orders of magnitude higher permeability.
This also means that steel which is not ferromagnetic will not work on an induction stovetop. The stove will detect it and the chip will reject the pan to prevent damage to the coils.
Induction can have the crown as soon as appliance designers stop giving them infuriating capacitive touch controls that are a fundamentally bad input method for a fucking stove.
Give them knobs. The UI nerd in me is so angry at the slow death of competent design as its cannibalized by marketing and branding people, and the penny pinchers they serve.
Omg yes
I hunted specifically for an induction stove with knobs, and couldn’t be happier. It’s how all induction stoves should be.
Btw, it’s a secondhand Gorenje stove, and it only costed me $50. An absolute bargain.
The problem is not with the controls fundamentally, it’s with the low quality controls. A glass touch surface has merit: it’s extremely easy to clean and keep clean, you’re never gonna get boiling pasta juice in there and corrode the contacts or whatever. It’s just that the manufacturers use the worst, most pathetic sensors that stop working as soon as the surface gets slightly moist. My own induction stovetop is pretty bad in that regard, but my parents’ significantly more expensive one is perfectly fine. The control part of the glass surface never gets very hot either.
Point is, it’s pretty good when done right. But they often don’t do it right.
The problem is give me a damned knob.
The highest quality touchscreen on earth that works perfectly not matter what is on my hands and never makes a mistake would still be shittier than a simple fucking knob.
But I never want to try and find the right place to touch a flat surface when I’m in the middle of basting meat and my pot is boiling over.
Analog style dials (they’re digital now) are easy to reach without looking, which keeps your focus on the task. Muscle memory is super important for flow.
Knobs are definitely better for a stove. Even the best capacitive touch sensor won’t work if you’ve got an oven mitt on, or you need to make a quick adjustment without taking your eyes off the food
Knobs belong on the front of the stove, under the ledge of the range/counter where you can’t spill anything on anyway.
Induction already wins cleanliness by a mile through not burning in whatever lands on the cooktop. No need to make knobs worse to make them easier to clean, when they don’t get dirty in the first place.
You mean in the space where I have a drawer full of cooking utensils and herbs? Because my induction top is only as high as my countertop. I much rather have the touch buttons than lose that space.
I will say I specifically bought an AEG because it has a slider. I can set it to 1 from 10 with one button press.
There’s nothing worse than having to press the minus-button 10 times when your pot is cooking over.
As long as the knobs aren’t behind the burners I’m happy. Every time I have to reach behind a boiling pot to turn it to simmer I just hear “bad design” in the voice of the audio book narrator for The Design of Everyday Things
I agree with induction where it can sense whether there is a pan but always thought the opposite with gas. Why do those burner knobs need to be reachable by toddlers?
How else are you gonna teach those lazy toddlers to cook? Smdh
Keep the knobs in a child safe drawer when not in use until the kids are old enough to know better. Reaching through steam is a burn risk as is reaching over hot oil.
But some of the new front knob designs get ruined by steam from the oven opening getting inside.
Why the hell that happens I do not know, but they moved the electronic parts there and steam ruins them.
Just discovered one place my induction burner is worse for cleanness. Since it’s a glass top there’s no place for boilers to go, except down the side of the range.
Compared to my previous gas stove that had sealed burners that were recessed to catch boilovers
I’ve seen really rough “analogue” and hybrid control designs. Like, an oven with knobs and touch buttons, so you can set temperature more easily with a knob, but some more specific settings are set through touch input. Overall idea sounds good, until you try do something with it - then it quickly becomes a convoluted mess, because rather than separately choosing which directions to heat or whether to turn on the fan, manufacturers decided to make a list of all possible combinations to scroll through. 🌝
No, touch screens are always shit compared to knobs. You might have even worse touch screens but that’s just like even worse!
One stray globule, and suddenly your stove is set to 700°
Another error and that’s in Celsius 😁
Wouldn’t that be fun, a button on the stove to convert the units.
“Honey did you touch the f/c button?”
“No why?”
me looking at burnt pan “oh no reason”
A bunch of new stoves have a pizza setting that’s in that range.
You have to be careful though, they’re not all actually insulated for that range, so the electronics actually cook and fail.
If you do buy one the self clean usually works better due to the higher heat range, but all the appliance sales reps said to never use it anyways.
Typically what happens is that the range detects liquid on the buttons, alerts, and stops accepting input until the liquid has been cleaned up.
Another problem that would never happen with knobs!
Easy to wipe true, but what if instead of a capacitor button we can have a magnetic control board with magnetic push keys?
It would be fully removable, attachment magnet snaps it into place and then it’s essentially a button with a magnet physically travelling up and down.
The I really hate the capacitor buttons since if you get pasta that boils over it fucks with the buttons pretty fast and the “off button” is just not good for quickly turning it off when flooded. It’s same for pan cooking sauce that splashes a bit, wiping the surface moist rag can have mixed results, paper towels become a requirement. There’s just a lot to not like.
A standard knob, as long as it’s not designed by an idiot, can be very simple by having a piece of heat resistant non corrosive material stuck out of the stove top and the button having a 1cm gap under it. Just make the pin chonky and you can drop a pan on it without anything happening. Lift the button off and it becomes still very easy to clean.
I’m not sure what you’re saying here but mine has an app for that
That’s worse. Don’t make me pull my phone out of my pocket to change stove temp. Absolutely embarrassing that this idea got to production.
does the good one have like a ridge or something so you have more tactile response than
?Some newer stoves now put the control panel separate, and you can e.g. build it into the edge of the countertop.
Rented a place with the capacitive touch style and my cat kept turning on the stove… luckily with it being induction it meant it didn’t get hot as long as a pan wasn’t on there but holy shit could that be really dangerous
Yeah, I was going to comment, that the touch control defenders, definitely do not own cats.
There are induction stove tops with normal knobs, thankfully. Neff also makes ones with a magnetic puck, which I also find very intuitive and easy to use.
One of my friends just bought an obscenely expensive stove bc it was the only one they could find that was induction with knobs
Mine has knobs. It’s fucking great. It’s a Bora professional 3.0
that’s showing up as an extractor fan on my computer
It’s a modular system of a downdraft extractor and induction or gas hobs. Scroll down.
you mean actually read the link you shared us? that’s just weird :P
got your knob right here bb.
Seriously though, I’m with you. I have an induction, and it’s fantastic, but any stupid moisture gets on it, and the controls don’t work until you wipe it off, and the things spazzes out at you, beeping incessantly.
My wife once dropped a metal bottle cap on the capacitive controls for our oven.
I don’t know anything about oven software, but so far as I could tell, it caused the entire thing to basically reboot.
so my mother’s kitchen, it looks like she has two ovens stacked vertically (the range is off to the side). top one is a microwave tho. my mother likes to microwave her eggs for some reason. probably just to disgust me. but
like i warned heras prophecy foretold one day she spilled an egg down the front of her microwave and down into the oven controls.she was smart enough to cut the power immediately (her side of the family was farmers, my dad’s side miners, so we’re used to fixing everything ourselves. we just had to clean out the pcb and had no permanent shorting) but i feel your pain.
she still microwaves her eggs. like fuck how hard is it to grab the big kettle and the spider skimmer
I get the microwaving eggs thing. It’s an inferior culinary experience, but it’s easier. I microwave things whenever possible because I have difficulty standing up for any significant period of time; even if the time taken is identical, microwaving something usually means pressing a few buttons before sitting down and waiting, whereas cooking something on the range usually involves tending, meaning I have to stay there.
I realize this is probably hilariously unrealistic but. I prescribe a kitchen remodel. They have all kinds of designs for folks in wheelchairs that you could use with just a regular chair
i get that. sometimes i feel like a bicycle. i’m fine laying down or leaning on shit, but if you want me upright you need to give me space to keep moving (so i don’t tip over).
Heh, nice.
🎵a good induction stove has a knob on one side🎵 just doesn’t scan right tho
My Samsung range has exactly that. And yeah, it’s very nice.
Check out impulse labs. I think you’re gonna like those knobs
Yeah that would be nice ngl
Mine has knobs, that was one of my non-negotiables. The oven controls are touch, but I can live with that.
Same. My only objection is somehow the timer is not independent: you can only use it on the oven
They exist
Give them knobs.
But knobless means the shareholders get an extra 0.00001¤ per unit!
Won’t someone think of the shareholders!I made the switch from gas to induction this year and had no issue finding models that had physical knobs.
But didn’t you know that all old design is bad design, and you’re supposed to laugh at people with knobs on their stove?
Deyre goin to take muh gas stowve
Imagine having less asthma in kids and the elderly! Imagine having your inside air be less ubhealthy
Call me a dumbass, but until a couple of years ago I had no clue anything was unhealthy about gas.
CH4 + O2 + fire -> CO2 + H2O
I suspect most of Gen X and earlier still believe gas stoves to be harmless.
They better. It’s already affecting your spelling part of the brain
That was just parody.
I love the idea. I hate the shitty unreliable overly digital implementation. Induction came around after everything was already well on the way to enshittification. Components are sized to last through warranty, not to last 20 or 30 years.
My gas stove, which has certainly many issues, hasn’t got a chip in it, and with occasional replacement of igniters will likely outlast me, unless we choose to replace it. This is a unique stove though, I will admit.
Your gas stove will outlast you. Partly because it is a very simple appliance, but also because gas stoves are fucking terrible for your health.
They are terrible if you don’t use an exhaust system sized to your stove.
Cooking on induction unvented is also bad, less bad than cooking on unvented gas, but you’re still putting things in the air that you’re not supposed to breathe.
If you have an exhaust fan, turn it on no matter what you cook with. If you don’t have an exhaust system, open a window.
I have an air quality monitor in my living room, and it knows when the stove is on in the kitchen, even if I have the windows open. It’s debatable how much of an effect it has on your health, but overall, we should stop burning fossil fuels wherever and whenever possible. Ditching my gas appliances in my house is high on my list of things to spend money on, even though it’s probably going to be ~10K to get them all switched over.
I want to systematically test air quality when cooking with gas versus electric. Do you notice anything different in the air quality when you use a toaster or other electric appliance that heats food above 350°F/175°C?
I do not have a gas stove but I do have have multiple air quality sensors. Any amount of cooking causes particulates to increase from a base range of 2 to 200+ for 2.5 and 10 ppm.
I’m similar. Surprisingly quick jumps in particulates and voc in the family room when the stove in the kitchen was turned on.
I don’t notice it on small electric appliances (but never explicitly tested them), and no longer have a gas stove
I also have a hepa filter in the family room that would come on surprisingly quickly and made a significant difference …. When it was new. Unfortunately that has gotten bumped so many times that it is usually throwing an error
With gas stoves the issue is mainly NO2, however all cooking releases volatile chemicals which typically get worse depending on how oily the food is.
Really the problem is with ventilation moreso how or what you are cooking. Most non industrial range hoods are severely underpowered and installed incorrectly.
I have a relatively small range hood to which installed an industrial inline exhaust fan too. Even though it’s small, the motor is strong enough to clear any smoke in the kitchen within a min.
Yeah I’ve been a little worried about that ….
My detector does not measure NOx, so I have no idea. But now that the gas stove is gone it’s no longer relevant
And yeah, definitely concerned about ventilation. I also have a pretty powerful inline exhaust fan, however there is no hood at all. The previous owners installed a pot rack in place of the hood and the kitchen is small enough that I can’t really change that. The exhaust fan is just a ceiling vent. I have no idea whether that balances out as positive (strong fan) or negative (no hood), but now that the gas stove is gone, that’s also a bit less important.
I don’t know if visual spatter/smoke, or smell are useful indicators but the induction stove has less of these. It only cooks what I intend
Our last induction lasted 15 years untill somebody cracked it so you just need to not buy the cheapest ever and it’s alright.
15 years is not long for a stove to last.
We only replaced it because it had a huge crack in it. It still worked no issue.
Cannot roast marshmallows OR light a joint, literally what is this used for???
Induction is anti smoking propaganda. They want to take away our freedoms!
Who the hell roasts marshmallows inside???
Also buy yourself a lighter
People with proper stoves.
And I’ve got a lighter, it weighs 200lb, has four burner heads and gets my hair for me at the same time.
People with proper stoves.
Aka the mentally unwell.
Good to hear you have a non portable lighter.
Aka the mentally unwell
dude this is the fediverse what did you expect to find here
I was not expecting anything.
Dr says the fumes are good for my mental health.
Handheld lighters are fine for beginners or if you really need to be able to move your lighter, but if you look at any enthusiast or professional setup you’re gonna see fixed / static lighters most of the time. Handheld lighters just don’t have the stability or lighting capacity needed for more serious applications.
I see. You must be a real lightsr enthusiast to be so invested in serious heavy duty lighters
Now I’m picturing someone putting a marshmallow on a spoon and holding a lighter under it to roast it.
Upvote for funny.
Man, so many people have zero sense of humor.
Justice for jiffy pop!
I bet if you made the induction coils stronger, it could work on aluminum
(Imagines an induction stove surface powerful enough to induce heat in non-ferromagnetic metals. Shudders in fear. Twitches in excitement)
I do love the induction stove at my gf’s house, but the issue with induction is you basically have to throw out 75% of your cookware and go get the special heavy-bottomed pans and pots for the heating to be effective and even. Most everything I have that’s decades old and salvaged from yard sales and the like does NOT work on induction like, at all.
All of mine worked with induction. Cast iron supremacy!
Pretty much all of my cookware already was compatible when I switched
Same
Well if you have really old cookware that does not work on induction it’s probably already time to replace it. Cast iron and quality stuff you would want to keep should work on induction.
Cheap cast irons work well induction
My neighbor’s daughter bought an induction stove for her best friend who happens to be a trans dwarf porn star. She goes by Munchkin Cock Jenny and let me tell you she can cook a hell of a good meal on that thing. She hosted us all for Thanksgiving breakfast last year and made Vienna sausages with coconut rice and strawberry rhubarb pie, all mixed together on the stovetop. None of it got hot because she just placed it all on the surface but at least she tried. She died of meningitis about 4 hours after we left which is unfortunate because whoever had to deal with her estate had to clean the stovetop.
Hello Mr elephant
123 Via Elephant
Elephantsburg
F4T LF🐜
Luckily induction is really easy to clean.
Make one the size of my 12" skillet so it doesn’t create a neat little zone of heat surrounded by sticky cold pan, and I’m all yours. Haven’t seen one yet.
That’s one of my biggest objections - too many cheap ones with tiny coils. When I got mine, I ended up spending double what I planned, mostly so I could get useful sized coils
And this being the US where induction is rare and expensive , I had to get a double oven and and “smart” features in order to get larger coils
not quite 12" but the biggest element on mine would probably be great with your skillet (if its the right metal)
I have a GE profile. That has the various sized burners. The odd part is the matching microwave got rid of many touch buttons and replaced it with a knob, which actually works well, but the stove has no knobs. Stove touch buttons work fairly well though, added bonus is you can lock the controls with a lock button. When looking my favorite choices came from ge profile and bosch.
Looks good enough! All the ones I end up with are usually closer to 8" at most, and I ended up shifting the pan awkwardly to heat it evenly.
What model?
Not OP but the GE Cafe line has a big “burner” like this for a large pan. And physical turn knobs for control.
Bosch Benchmark, from 5 or 6 years ago
Omg yes. I’d been wanting to try one out for a long time. My friend got one. Stayed over and tried to make my specialty giant pancakes. Sorely disappointed with the useless results. Now I just bring my waffle iron instead.
Consider one of those where you can combine the burners/zones
Maybe I just haven’t gotten to use a nice one yet - every time it’s a landlord special, cheapest junk on the market.
Yeah landlird specials suck. But if it’s a newer one even the cheapest induction hobs are quite good
Don’t get me wrong they boil water faster than hellfire, and if the pan is the right size they do great. I’m just too loyal to my big ol’ skillet
Yeah I get you
i had one (a couple decades ago) that the large burner had two zones: both the ring and the center of the ring could be activated independently. it’s been a hot minute so i don’t remember exactly how it worked.
and i need a 14 inch skillet for my good pastas
Just looked them up lately; there are all kinds of forms and sizes in mobile or built-in.
